Where do the lost spend eternity? Really!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

They didn't say the "opposite" (that the tongues brought the HGB). They say that the HG puts words into your mind, and you speak them. I think Praxeas is saying that's not how it works, but rather the HG controls your lips, tongue, vocal cords, etc and takes over the vocalizing directly. Is that how you would describe it? (And Praxeas, did I get that right, from what you said?)

I wouldn't say that's opposite. Just different steps in the process. One less step, in your case. Your way is more "efficient"!

In my case, when I tried to speak in english I was unable to do it....the Spirit caused my tongue and lips to form other sounds. It's true that you have to be willing to yield to the Spirit and allow God to speak through you.

It might be in some cases someone hears words that they repeat. I mean, how do you all think prophecies or words of knowledge work? You hear the words and repeat them. Same with interpretations

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

In my case, when I tried to speak in english I was unable to do it....the Spirit caused my tongue and lips to form other sounds. It's true that you have to be willing to yield to the Spirit and allow God to speak through you.

Yes, you mentioned before that you tried to speak English and couldn't. I'm not sure which is more disturbing: hearing things in your head and speaking them, or losing self-control.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Yes, you mentioned before that you tried to speak English and couldn't. I'm not sure which is more disturbing: hearing things in your head and speaking them, or losing self-control.

I am disturbed you would find it disturbing.
Peter had a vision...who was in control?
daniel fell as dead...who was in control?
John too....who was in control?

When Paul was taken up into the third heavens...who was in control?

When they spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost....how do you think that worked? They read it from a book? They Holy Ghost gave them utterance? They heard words and repeated them?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I am disturbed you would find it disturbing.
Peter had a vision...who was in control?
daniel fell as dead...who was in control?
John too....who was in control?

When Paul was taken up into the third heavens...who was in control?

When they spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost....how do you think that worked? They read it from a book? They Holy Ghost gave them utterance? They heard words and repeated them?

The same argument can justify slithering like snakes and being "drunk" in the Spirit.

OK, neither of us will change the other's mind here, obviously. I gave you my thoughts on the issue, and I accept yours. You could be right, that when you lost the ability to control your speech, it was in fact the Holy Spirit controlling you.

Now I have a question about something else you said, that you were "expecting it for more than 6 months." Was that the time from your repentance and water baptism, or what? Why do you think it took so long? I have always wondered why it doesn't just happen, as soon as it is asked for. Sure, God is sovereign, and He can do whatever He wants for His own reasons. But if, as I think Apostolics teach, salvation doesn't really happen until the filling and initial evidence, isn't it strange that God would keep you waiting so long? (Maybe you don't believe that, yourself, but I think many here do, don't they?)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

The same argument can justify slithering like snakes and being "drunk" in the Spirit.

Please show me where the bible speaks of slithering like snakes or being drunk in the spirit...

OK, neither of us will change the other's mind here, obviously. I gave you my thoughts on the issue, and I accept yours. You could be right, that when you lost the ability to control your speech, it was in fact the Holy Spirit controlling you.

Well I certainly did not make it up. Can you answer my question? How do you think it happened in Acts and when Paul mentions tongues? They read it from a book? They heard words and repeated it? They just faked it? God took over? What?

Now I have a question about something else you said, that you were "expecting it for more than 6 months." Was that the time from your repentance and water baptism, or what?

Yes

Why do you think it took so long?

Not sure. Lack, of faith. Misconceptions about what to expect or not to expect.

I have always wondered why it doesn't just happen, as soon as it is asked for.

I think a lot of it has to do with us. Look at Acts where the Samaritans did not receive it yet...they needed the Apostles to come and pray for them.

Sure, God is sovereign, and He can do whatever He wants for His own reasons. But if, as I think Apostolics teach, salvation doesn't really happen until the filling and initial evidence, isn't it strange that God would keep you waiting so long?

I'd have to agree that it is God keeping someone waiting for so long in order to answer that question and obviously I do not.

(Maybe you don't believe that, yourself, but I think many here do, don't they?)

That it's God keeping them waiting or that speaking in tongues is a necessary pre-requisite to being saved?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Please show me where the bible speaks of slithering like snakes or being drunk in the spirit...

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.

Well I certainly did not make it up. Can you answer my question? How do you think it happened in Acts and when Paul mentions tongues? They read it from a book? They heard words and repeated it? They just faked it? God took over? What?

I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.

That it's God keeping them waiting or that speaking in tongues is a necessary pre-requisite to being saved?

That tongues is necessary for salvation.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.



I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.



That tongues is necessary for salvation.

Timmy are you a Cessationist??????????????????????

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

It's not there. But some people do justify such things by saying God is controlling them. Don't put God in a box, they say. But you're right, tongues is not the same thing. That does appear in the Bible. The quesion is whether it is still valid for today, and this is where there are differing opinions.

That is irrelevant. We are discussing tongues and tongues is biblical.

I don't think it was fake, in the NT. I don't know the exact mechanisim, except that the Spirit gave the utterance -- somehow.

Think about it....somehow they yielded control to someone else....I'll let you ponder that

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That it's God keeping them waiting or that speaking in tongues is a necessary pre-requisite to being saved?

Do you believe that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation, Praxeas?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Do you believe that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation, Praxeas?

I believe tongues is the expected initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I believe it is the normative biblical experience. Having said that I will not limit God and a person to say that they were not baptized with the Spirit if they did not speak in tongues, however I would say that if they really do have it and are consistantly walking with the Lord and praying and interceding for others that eventually they should speak in tongues