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  #1  
Old 05-16-2007, 10:41 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Neither Lincoln nor Seward were founding fathers. The founding fathers also lived in a vastly different time.
No but they did cite the founding fathers as the authority for their own non-interventionist policy.

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AND

I believe under Jefferson, the United States of America interviened in Tripoli and took on the Barbary Pirates.
And what were the circumstances behind it? Was it not that the Barbary states (these were defacto nations) had been attacking American shipping and trying to extort money from the United States just as it had previously been doing to France and England before those nations reached an agreement with the Barbary states?

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AND

our actions in both Iraq and Afghanistan ARE issues of Amercian National Security. they are not interventionist actions unrelated to America's own interests.
So, let's see if I understand your argument: America engages in interventionist policies since the 1950s that anger various Islamic factions throughout the Middle East. Some of these factions retaliate in various ways, not the least of which is 9/11. Therefore, the United States has a national security interest in retaliating against their retaliation?
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
No but they did cite the founding fathers as the authority for their own non-interventionist policy.

And what were the circumstances behind it? Was it not that the Barbary states (these were defacto nations) had been attacking American shipping and trying to extort money from the United States just as it had previously been doing to France and England before those nations reached an agreement with the Barbary states?

So, let's see if I understand your argument: America engages in interventionist policies since the 1950s that anger various Islamic factions throughout the Middle East. Some of these factions retaliate in various ways, not the least of which is 9/11. Therefore, the United States has a national security interest in retaliating against their retaliation?
well, you are close enough for me. When America has a national interest, then America should act. period.
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  #3  
Old 05-16-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
well, you are close enough for me. When America has a national interest, then America should act. period.
No matter what the Constitution says?

The United States Of America does not exist outside the Constitution.

How do you act outside of your creator without being in transgression against said creator?
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  #4  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:30 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
No matter what the Constitution says?

The United States Of America does not exist outside the Constitution.

How do you act outside of your creator without being in transgression against said creator?
The Constitution didn't create this nation, God did.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:31 PM
Chan
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The Constitution didn't create this nation, God did.
God created all of the other nations, too.
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  #6  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:32 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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God created all of the other nations, too.
And?
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:34 PM
Chan
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And?
And, so, what's your point?
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  #8  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:36 PM
RonPaul4President
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The Constitution didn't create this nation, God did.
And the political ideals of the founding fathers are found within the constitution. It isn't a spiritual thing, this idea of politics and the constitution. Nor economics, for that matter. God is God no matter what nation, political or economical ideal.

If we wish to hold to the ideals set up by the founding fathers, then we have uphold and defend the constitution -- and everything that is within it. It has nothing to do with spirituality, it has to do with political ideals.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rico View Post
The Constitution didn't create this nation, God did.
Well let's just chunk it out then. (The Constitution)

Nobody's using it anyway.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2007, 12:37 PM
RonPaul4President
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Well let's just chunk it out then. (The Constitution)

Nobody's using it anyway.
I hear Iraq needs one....
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