Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:49 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
Certain death scenarios for all involved is the only realm I can think a woman is without a choice. Say the doctor gives her a 40% chance to live with an abortion and her and her baby both a 20% chance to live without an abortion. That's a choice wouldn't you say?

Or let's say she has a will surely live with an abortion and will surely die without one. But the baby will surely live if she doesn't have one. That's still a choice and there's no trying to save both patients in this scenario...

Or let's say she has a 80% chance of living with an abortion and her and her baby both have a 35% chance of living without an abortion. She still has a choice here too.
No. You are skewing the issue here. If pregnant lady's doctor tells her she or her baby only has a certain percentage chance of living so early on in her pregnancy, she should run...not walk..to another physician. I don't know of any physician who can accurately make those predictions.

Again, you split hairs.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:04 PM
jfrog's Avatar
jfrog jfrog is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,001
Re: Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
No. You are skewing the issue here. If pregnant lady's doctor tells her she or her baby only has a certain percentage chance of living so early on in her pregnancy, she should run...not walk..to another physician. I don't know of any physician who can accurately make those predictions.

Again, you split hairs.
I've been nice and not accused you of little things like splitting hairs but the least you can do is actually address the issue I keep on repeatedly bringing up.

A woman that knows she has a better chance of survival if she undertakes a medical procedure that removes the unborn with a very low chance of survival. Should she undertake that procedure?

A woman that knows she has a better chance of survival if she undertakes a medical procedure that removes the unborn with no chance of survival. Should she undertake that procedure?

Is there any difference between a woman having an unborn removed with no chance of survival and having an actual abortion?
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:50 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
I've been nice and not accused you of little things like splitting hairs but the least you can do is actually address the issue I keep on repeatedly bringing up.
I hardly think misconstruing somebody else's posts is being nice.

Saying you are splitting hairs is not being disrespectful.

Your questions are very generic and you are assuming I should make somebody else's decision for them.


However, I will attempt to answer your revised questions below to the best of my ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
A woman that knows she has a better chance of survival if she undertakes a medical procedure that removes the unborn with a very low chance of survival. Should she undertake that procedure?

If it were me, I would have to be near death for this to happen...and by that time, the decision would have been taken out of my hands. My doctor and my family would make that decision if I had not already specified. That being said...in a near deathly existence, the unborn with a very low chance of survival outside the womb would likewise die along with me if it were chosen for me not to have the baby removed.

So...allowing both mother and baby with a low chance of survival... dying together would prove ...what???


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
A woman that knows she has a better chance of survival if she undertakes a medical procedure that removes the unborn with no chance of survival. Should she undertake that procedure?
How would she know she doesn't have a good chance of survival? Is she deathly sick when this chance of survival is brought to her attention? Otherwise, how can any doctor make this assumption and be accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
Is there any difference between a woman having an unborn removed with no chance of survival and having an actual abortion?
I am going to assume that you are talking about the mother making a decision to have her baby removed and that baby has no chance of surviving.

It depends on a lot of things.

Is the mother healthy when she made the decision to remove the baby? If she is healthy with no emergency medical problems whatsoever and she chooses to remove the baby, then yes, it would be an abortion. But how does this question fit into my assertions that medical procedures to deliver babies because of the mother's medical emergencies are not intentional abortions, but early deliveries if there is a good chance that the baby will survive?

If the baby has little to no chance of survival what good comes of it to allow both to die? What difference would it make if one calls this scenario a
medical procedure or a therapeutic abortion? The unborn would still be removed and the mother *might* make it through.

I'm sorry but there are no simple answers to the questions you pose.

There are so many variables to your questions that it is impossible to answer them accurately.

I look at these questions through the eyes of a medical professional and would never give a point blank answer without some facts as to the condition of both mother and baby.

It would be deceptive for a physician to tell a pregnant woman in her early pregnancy that she might die when there is no medical evidence to base that on. I would run to the next doctor had one told me that.

For one who chose to terminate her pregnancy because she "thought" she might die, well I would have to agree that it would be an abortion.

Women should think about these possible scenarios before they find themselves in compromising conditions. Women are the ones who bear the babies, the shame other people heap upon them, the financial cost and sometimes the ultimate cost. They should think before they decide to be with any man.

Men don't bear the cost like the women do and shouldn't place women in these compromising conditions for their moment of pleasure unless they plan to marry them and stick it out till death do they part.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:36 PM
Hoovie's Avatar
Hoovie Hoovie is offline
Supercalifragilisticexpiali...


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
Re: Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post

Is there any difference between a woman having an unborn removed with no chance of survival and having an actual abortion?
1. I automatically question the no chance of survival (this is based in part on the many many who were told this only to deliver babies in spite of the prediction) My first course of action would be to get another opinion.

2. However, assuming you are correct that there is "no chance"... I view this in similar way as when a doctor tells a patient he is terminal and he has only a few days to live. We can nurture, support and pray for this individual, or simply tear him apart limb by limb and call it a noble event.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:32 PM
jfrog's Avatar
jfrog jfrog is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,001
Re: Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
1. I automatically question the no chance of survival (this is based in part on the many many who were told this only to deliver babies in spite of the prediction) My first course of action would be to get another opinion.

2. However, assuming you are correct that there is "no chance"... I view this in similar way as when a doctor tells a patient he is terminal and he has only a few days to live. We can nurture, support and pray for this individual, or simply tear him apart limb by limb and call it a noble event.
I can agree with those two opinions. However I must note that in the case of no chance of survival I would imagine it's easier and less risky to perform an abortion than to cut the woman open to deliver the child. So while I can understand and respect your opinion that it's different I can also understand and respect a woman that did choose the easier option for herself when there was no chance either way for the unborn.
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obama and Planned Parenthood Sam Political Talk 4 04-18-2012 09:03 AM
Planned Parenthood clinic leader quits... Apocrypha Political Talk 1 11-03-2009 08:37 AM
Seven Days of Prayer... Woo Hoo!! :) TRFrance Fellowship Hall 50 11-18-2008 06:34 AM
Two a days at Amarillo Fellowship of prayer. COOPER Fellowship Hall 3 08-06-2007 06:21 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.