Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

jfrog · #1 04-17-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Heard of it many times, and have a couple friends who did name the child and have a service for the child after miscarriage.

Our society DOES equate abortion with murder - with one small caveat... it has to be a "wanted" child.

There is a difference in that the unborn child has built fewer relationships at that point in there life. This is true for the born as well. As a baby grows so does his circle of friends and influence.

I think you and Titus2woman ignored the main point. The point was that Christians have traditionally not treated unborns/stillborns as people in the few ways they can treat them as people. They don't name them and they don't bury them. Sure that's starting to change but it isn't there yet.

I can only think that if Christians had done their part and acted like unborns were people for the last 2000 years then abortion wouldn't even be a debate right now. So what I'm saying is stop pointing the finger at those who have abortions and saying "murderer" when you and your religion have not acted like unborns deserve the same ceremonies as born people. You're religion has kept and maintained that divide between born and unborn people and so it's no surprise when the world follows your example and principle. If you treat unborns differently than those that are born then don't condemn others for doing the same thing!

Hoovie · #2 04-17-2012, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I think you and Titus2woman ignored the main point. The point was that Christians have traditionally not treated unborns/stillborns as people in the few ways they can treat them as people. They don't name them and they don't bury them. Sure that's starting to change but it isn't there yet.

I can only think that if Christians had done their part and acted like unborns were people for the last 2000 years then abortion wouldn't even be a debate right now. So what I'm saying is stop pointing the finger at those who have abortions and saying "murderer" when you and your religion have not acted like unborns deserve the same ceremonies as born people. You're religion has kept and maintained that divide between born and unborn people and so it's no surprise when the world follows your example and principle. If you treat unborns differently than those that are born then don't condemn others for doing the same thing!

I receive your point but accept no responsibility for the sins of my forefathers or the church at large. Also, I think it's a flimsy argument. "treating" someone differently is much different than killing them off.

jfrog · #3 04-17-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I receive your point but accept no responsibility for the sins of my forefathers or the church at large. Also, I think it's a flimsy argument. "treating" someone differently is much different than killing them off.

How many unborns have you named? How many unborns have you suggested be buried? How many unborn funerals have you attended? I'm willing to wager that your actions show that you don't treat unborns as people except when it comes to the abortion issue.

Also the argument isn't merely that "unborns are being treated differently" its that you and the church at large and most all of society have never treated unborns as people and that's where the idea that abortion is permissible stems from, unborns are not being treated like people by anyone. (Though that is starting to change.)

Hoovie · #4 04-17-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

How many unborns have you named? How many unborns have you suggested be buried? How many unborn funerals have you attended? I'm willing to wager that your actions show that you don't treat unborns as people except when it comes to the abortion issue.

Also the argument isn't merely that "unborns are being treated differently" its that you and the church at large and most all of society have never treated unborns as people and that's where the idea that abortion is permissible stems from, unborns are not being treated like people by anyone. (Though that is starting to change.)

I won't quibble, but most of my unborn children were named.

Abortion is a societal ill, so in that regard we all share in it. I think rather than laying blame squarely on the church in this matter, you can find it is the church that is at the forefront in aiding those effected by unplanned pregnancies, and yes, even treating the unborn as real children.

jfrog · #5 04-17-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I won't quibble, but most of my unborn children were named.

Abortion is a societal ill, so in that regard we all share in it. I think rather than laying blame squarely on the church in this matter, you can find it is the church that is at the forefront in aiding those effected by unplanned pregnancies, and yes, even treating the unborn as real children.

The church is at the forefront of trying to stop abortion now that is true. That doesn't change that it was the churches practices that made unborns be viewed as less than people to begin with.

Bro. Robbins · #6 04-17-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I think you and Titus2woman ignored the main point. The point was that Christians have traditionally not treated unborns/stillborns as people in the few ways they can treat them as people. They don't name them and they don't bury them. Sure that's starting to change but it isn't there yet.

I can only think that if Christians had done their part and acted like unborns were people for the last 2000 years then abortion wouldn't even be a debate right now. So what I'm saying is stop pointing the finger at those who have abortions and saying "murderer" when you and your religion have not acted like unborns deserve the same ceremonies as born people. You're religion has kept and maintained that divide between born and unborn people and so it's no surprise when the world follows your example and principle. If you treat unborns differently than those that are born then don't condemn others for doing the same thing!

I can't speak beyond my own 39 years of living, and the little corner of the world I've lived in. But growing up in the mountains, every still born we have ever known of, or unborn (assuming you mean miscarriages, or where the baby inside died because mom died or was killed), have always been named and been either a part of mom's funeral, or had one of their own. I can take you to countless cemetaries in the mountains of East TN where there are tons of graves where families we know have buried a still born baby, with names on them.... And can take you to quite a few for miscarried fetus'. So, no, I can't speak to 2000 years, but I can say that the broad brush your using doesn't paint over everyone.

jfrog · #7 04-17-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

I can't speak beyond my own 39 years of living, and the little corner of the world I've lived in. But growing up in the mountains, every still born we have ever known of, or unborn (assuming you mean miscarriages, or where the baby inside died because mom died or was killed), have always been named and been either a part of mom's funeral, or had one of their own. I can take you to countless cemetaries in the mountains of East TN where there are tons of graves where families we know have buried a still born baby, with names on them.... And can take you to quite a few for miscarried fetus'. So, no, I can't speak to 2000 years, but I can say that the broad brush your using doesn't paint over everyone.

I was born in Northeast Tn (further east than knoxville) and maybe I'm out of the loop but I've never heard of a miscarried baby being buried.