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  #21  
Old 06-01-2012, 09:14 PM
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Margies3 Margies3 is offline
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Abuse comes in many forms and walks among us all.
that's so true, AYR. Isn't it sad tho that very often if someone who claims to have a very strong faith and strong connection with "whatever religion", the people that they abuse very often blame the religion or God Himself for the abuse. It's not usually the fault of the religion and it is certainly NEVER God's fault. Yet, people connect the abuser and their religion so strongly, that they blame both.

I say all of this very carefully and almost reluctantly because I've never been the victim of abuse. So I don't want to presume how I would react to it. Who knows? Maybe I would do the same thing? I hope not. And I think not. But it's not fair to judge someone else if you've never had to walk in their shoes.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:45 AM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

Margie, I have told you before that I love your signature line.

I've grown up in a fair amount of abuse. First physical, then emotional. How many of you, as a child, could exist living in your bed for a weekend, not being allowed to get out of bed for 48 hours except for meals and bathroom isolated in your upstairs bedroom. No lights, television, radio, toys, books, heat or air conditioning? All you would be allowed to do is to stare at the four walls. At night I would make up games with the car lights shining off the loft ceiling of my bedroom. Something...anything to occupy my mind. Sometimes I would look down the vent in the floor just to see some light. Sundays, I was made to dress and walk to church for the hour service, then after Sunday dinner back to bed for the rest of the day and night.

You could not talk and were afraid to ask to come downstairs to use the bathroom. And what if your abuser caught you looking out the window and added another 24 hours to your sentence of isolation and immobilization? I remember wetting my pants when I heard my abuser leaving the front door, then looking up at my window to see if I was out of bed looking outside. Or hear my abuser sneaking up the stairs to see if I was out of my bed. He had loud, nasal breathing and the old steps were creaky.

And how would you feel if you said the wrong thing or told a tiny lie because you know that same punishment is coming around the corner and you are hoping to get out of the coming 24-48 hours of silence, emotional torture? But he caught you and sentenced you to another weekend again?

What if you forgot to take off your good "school shoes" after school and accidentally scuffed them up and your punishment was to go to bed after supper without any lights on to get ready for the hated bed? These were just a few of the hundreds of possible infractions that will land you in your prison cell.

Oh and you could end up in bed earlier than your 8:30 pm bedtime if you were told to watch tee vee and you were looking around the living room instead.

My brother once had to stay in bed for 3 weeks straight. He was fisticuffed by the abuser. Had to write a repeated sentence 10 thousand times when he was thirteen years old.

Now, I am going to switch subjects for just a while.

I am of the opinion that most Christian denominations in this world start out pure in heart, on fire for the Lord and wanting to reach others with His love. But sometimes individuals come in and bring in the letter of the law and become abusive in some form or another...to some people and not to others. I don't understand why this is so in some cases. The only thing I can think of is that some people get a big rush on having "authority" and making people dance like puppets.

I am going to try to make this very plain, lest I get accused of generalizing my position. Most likely I will leave something out or somebody might get offended. It is not my intent to disparage, but sometimes it comes out that way.

My brother is one of those who blames God and religion. He proclaims himself an atheist and will not even talk about Jesus. Part of that comes from home, part from our upbringing in the RCC, and part of it is just him. I will not say anymore about that.

When I got old enough to get away from all of that, including the RC religion, I prayed to God, studied what I could understand from the Word, watched tee vee religious programs and felt the tug of the Holy Ghost to turn my life over to Him. All this happened over a period of about 5 years. I was running from myself and made some very unwise choices in my life. This damaged me. But I was what I thought was ...free! It wasn't until Christ made me free that i was truly free.

I went to a Baptist church and voiced my salvation. But I felt deep inside me that God had something more for me. I did not know what it was. I kept asking God. God sent a pentecostal lady my way to witness to me. I made the decision to start attending a UPC church. I waited on my baptism until I felt the UPC was the place to get baptized. I did not understand the importance of being baptized in Jesus Name, but I felt inside that it was God who led me there to be baptized and it was right. During and after baptism, I had extreme joy and happiness. However, the UPC standards of carnality started to creep in and subtle comments were made to me and about other people in my presence. I began to worry more about my appearance than I kept my eyes on Christ. I had no friends outside the church because it was frowned upon.

A church split happened over tithes and authority and an adulterous Pastor did not help at all.

I met my husband and after we married he wanted us to attend his church because of the upheaval in the church I attended. Being a newly married couple, we wanted stability and the church situation was very nasty.

My new church seemed fine for the first 2 years...until I had a difference in opinion about mixed race couples. I see no taboo in God's Word about people of different races marrying and attending church. If they are both in Christ, believe in Oneness and baptism in Jesus Name, then I counted them as brothers and sisters and I would welcome them to sit in the same pew I did, had any come to the church. Some did not see it that way. One person said that maybe God would lead them to get a divorce, if any mixed couples ever came to service. I thought that was one of the most ignorant statements I had ever heard from a Holy Ghost filled person and tried to tactfully say so.

I see no taboo about people of other races attending a historically all white church. That opinion got me into trouble. But that isn't the only opinion that got me shunned.

Perhaps I was naive in thinking that I could have an opinion, being female. I certainly learned a lesson. I will not get into anymore of the outrageous behavior I observed and felt in this church and a few more attempts to try to settle in other churches, but was talked about as soon as they found out I was visiting.

That is the expanse of 8 years of seeking, praying and hindering I witnessed in the UPC organized church system. This sort of stuff can hinder the spirit if one allows.

I do realize now that not all UPC churches are this dysfunctional since I've been here at AFF. I am somewhat jealous of those who have the privilege and honor of attending a kind, loving church with kind people. But I am happy that those of you who feel quite comfortable are happy where they are at.

Here it is in a nutshell for me. I said all of the above to give a little
background on what I know that I went through and that others go through the physical and emotional pain of abuse...and suffer in silence. While I found myself quite in solitude in the church system, especially after I tried to seek help from the leadership in my church over the past emotional torture I wanted to come to terms with and find peace. I know now that they were well under equipped in knowledge and Spirit to help me. They must have knew it too because they avoided me and I only ended up being more alone than ever... and probably because I was too intense for everybody else's comfort zone.

Never once though, did I ever feel to blame God for other people's inadequate ability to minister to me or for the abuse I had endured in my life. I don't blame God for people who cannot accept others who are different than they. There are some kind people in church and there are some abusive people in church. The kind ones are kind to my face, but never stood in the gap for me. I know that abusive people do not represent God in any way, shape or form.

My Jesus has visited me in ways that I feel so very fortunate despite the way things have turned out for me concerning the UPC organized church system.

Do I feel the need to return to a place where they do not feel they do any wrong?

Do I press onwards in my walk, faith and belief in Christ? Yes! I am now approaching elderly age and am considered to be elderly by some now.

I say all of this now, not to knock the church system, although I have spits of frustrations from time to time. But I just want other people out there to appreciate God even if they are not in ideal situations. Abusive people do not represent God.

Sometimes it is a lonely life when you see pentecostals in the stores, the malls, downtown and many of them won't give you the time of day. It has been 23 years since I left this particular church and some still talk about me being a northerner and not fitting in, afraid that since I was a northerner, I would be bringing something into their church that they would never accept. This is what one of those pentecostal men told another person about me 23 years later, just last week to another person who discussed it with my husband. I've even endured finger-pointing at stores. This is continued persecution from someone who says that they are in Christ's church and cannot love someone who believes the same, but has different opinions about life in general. I don't believe anything spiritually different than he does, except maybe the standards, of which now their church does not even uphold any longer. Yet, I am still being accused 23 years later of bringing something into their church that they would not accept? He never said what that issue was, except that I am a northerner. The way I see it, they brought in whatever it was that they feared all by themselves since I had not been there all these years.

However, it is possible to still live your life for God even being persecuted by a brother or sister and even if you think that you are all alone, you are not. Christ is walking with us every second of every day.

Our God is a big and Just God. Bigger than any problem we may have or ever go through.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2012, 09:33 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

Areyouready?, has this person who did this finally dead? If so, did they play "Ding Dong the witch is dead!" at his funeral? If not, they should have -or SHOULD when he DOES finally die.
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:15 AM
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Margies3 Margies3 is offline
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

AreYouReady, I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. I know it is not easy to re-live all of that when you tell your life history. I am sooo, sooo sorry that you had to live thru what you had to endure.

I was talking to my friend the other day (who just happens to be a pediatrician, so she sees alot more than most of us!). We were talking about how when we grew up we didn't know anyone we could have said for sure was being abused at home. There were some who we would say that about now. But in those days, even abuse such as yours would have been considered "parental privilege". Today, if someone knew about that kind of stuff going on, it would get turned in to Children's Services and someone would investigate. I truly HOPE that that means that less children from this generation will have to grow up in abusive situations than did in the past. But on the other hand, I am appalled at how MANY children I know of today who are living in those kinds of conditions and even worse. I am dumbfounded by the number of girls I know personally who have been or are being sexually abused in their own homes. My heart weeps for what this world has come to. Has it always been this bad and I just lived a much protected life???

AYR, I'm thankful that you did not choose to blame God for what someone else did to you. He is truly the only One who has answers for your life. To blame Him would have been to put up a wall and not allowed Him to help you. Congratulations on making the far better choice.

Thank you again for sharing your story and being so open. We have a tendency to attack here on AFF when someone doesn't believe exactly like we do. Perhaps it would help alot if we knew more about where people have come from and what formed their belief systems. We might be more understanding, you think?
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2012, 05:32 PM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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Areyouready?, has this person who did this finally dead? If so, did they play "Ding Dong the witch is dead!" at his funeral? If not, they should have -or SHOULD when he DOES finally die.
Yes, he is dead. I think he was shell-shocked from the wars. He displayed a lot of military tactics in the way he dealt with us children.
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  #26  
Old 06-02-2012, 06:33 PM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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AreYouReady, I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. I know it is not easy to re-live all of that when you tell your life history. I am sooo, sooo sorry that you had to live thru what you had to endure.

I was talking to my friend the other day (who just happens to be a pediatrician, so she sees alot more than most of us!). We were talking about how when we grew up we didn't know anyone we could have said for sure was being abused at home. There were some who we would say that about now. But in those days, even abuse such as yours would have been considered "parental privilege". Today, if someone knew about that kind of stuff going on, it would get turned in to Children's Services and someone would investigate. I truly HOPE that that means that less children from this generation will have to grow up in abusive situations than did in the past. But on the other hand, I am appalled at how MANY children I know of today who are living in those kinds of conditions and even worse. I am dumbfounded by the number of girls I know personally who have been or are being sexually abused in their own homes. My heart weeps for what this world has come to. Has it always been this bad and I just lived a much protected life???

AYR, I'm thankful that you did not choose to blame God for what someone else did to you. He is truly the only One who has answers for your life. To blame Him would have been to put up a wall and not allowed Him to help you. Congratulations on making the far better choice.

Thank you again for sharing your story and being so open. We have a tendency to attack here on AFF when someone doesn't believe exactly like we do. Perhaps it would help alot if we knew more about where people have come from and what formed their belief systems. We might be more understanding, you think?
Thanks Margie. It's been a long time ago. You go through some rough spots in life, then it smooths out. You come to terms with it and move on, although you never fully forget the terror, the loneliness or the worthless feelings you had.
Growing up in poverty in addition to that causes some people to look down on you anyway.

And yes, our upbringing does play a large role in how we shape our belief system. That was one reason why I posted the story from back home about the young boy who was beaten to death by his father. They grew up in horrid conditions. I recognize that those conditions far surpass what happened to me and my siblings. I wonder how the brothers view of God will be shaped or if anybody will care if they walk into a church and does not think certain standards are even relatively important after all they've been through.



Working in the medical field, I have seen child abuse. I think it has always been here. I likewise think that back in the day it was considered "parental privilege". Nobody intervened.

Perhaps some things were considered taboo to talk about. One thing I remembered was my parents warning us not to tell anybody what goes on in the house. I learned during therapy that is a classic symptom of abuse issues in a home...constant warning and threats of harm if you tell. Of course children do not know that. And most children do not want to leave the only home they ever knew anyway while little. Many foster homes are no better.

Don't feel bad for living a protected life. I would that all people feel protected, loved by God and family. It is a blessing from God.

Abuse is nothing but a vicious circle. It happens because people do not know to learn to break the cycle. Relearning to do things differently is not an easy task. Learning about God was a totally satisfying experience even if some of the pentecostals never understood where I was coming from. I am fully aware that God does know and that is sufficient.


I made up my mind that I was not going to stifle my children till they do not want to be around me. I most certainly am not perfect, but I feel happy in that they are adults now and was not in a hurry to leave home at an early age. They want to be around us.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:25 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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Yes, he is dead. I think he was shell-shocked from the wars. He displayed a lot of military tactics in the way he dealt with us children.
Then you need to go to his grave site and write on his stone under the date of his death, "....and not soon enough!".

Honestly, going from this type of house to a conservative UPC church is one of the worst things that could have happened. To this day I do not blame GOD for anything that has happened to me, in fact I thank Him for all His blessings! But there are plenty of people who I would not, or have not, shed a tear when they gave their last breaths.

Last edited by RandyWayne; 06-02-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:34 PM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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Then you need to go to his grave site and write on his stone under the date of his death, "....and not soon enough!".

Honestly, going from this type of house to a conservative UPC church is one of the worst things that could have happened. To this day I do not blame GOD for anything that has happened to me, in fact I thank Him for all His blessings! But there are plenty of people who I would not, or have not, shed a tear when they gave their last breaths.
Nobody that I know goes there. His entire immediate family left the state and never returned. Sad and I must be a little nuts to feel some compassion. Maybe it is forgiveness?
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:51 PM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

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Honestly, going from this type of house to a conservative UPC church is one of the worst things that could have happened.
Yeah...I found that out. Strict obedience at home growing up, then strict obedience to a pastor after growing up and becoming an adult did not mix well for me.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:13 PM
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Re: Amish: Out of Order

Oh my. This resonates with me, "AreYouReady." I suffered a lot of stuff growing up...(many days being forced to stay in a dark,..closed closet,..etc. etc. etc. etc. (don't want to go into detail. Sent to children's home. ran away from chrildren's home. Wound up in upci bible college. Graduated. Wound up in abusive marriage,...etc. etc. (and so forth).

So I hear ya,..............(you are not alone).
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