Creflo Dollar

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

What's the difference between "whooping" your kid who disobeys and "whooping" your employee if s/he makes a mistake at work that costs you money or damages your business' reputation? I can tell you: if you do the former, you'll get a pass as long as you don't leave physical bruising. If you were to whoop up on your employee, even yelling at someone can be assault. "Offensive touching" can be battery.

Again, I repeat--if someone saw a person whooping on a dog the way some people whoop on their kids, they'd be going to jail for cruelty to animals. I am reminded that the first case of cruelty to a child was brought under an animal abuse statute because there was simply no conception that one could abuse their child prior to the end of the 19th century.

I was hit with a metal flyswatter as a kid back in the 1960s. In the long run, I don't think it taught me anything except how to be a better liar. What got my attention more, and kept me on the straight and narrow, was my father's statement that he wouldn't bail us kids out of jail. He demonstrated this by refusing to bail one of my cousins out. My cousin's coworkers had to pony up the money.

kids need discipline and if you believe in the bible then you will believe when it says do not spare the rod. they need to be taught right from wrong and some times it comes through a spanking, but if you teach them now then the spanking one seem like anything compared to the trouble that you will save them later down the road.

Im not talking about abuse, im talking about teaching them yes and when necessary to punish with a whoopin. sorry time outs dont work, lack of discipline on kids allows them to grow up with out the fear of reprocations.

the difference with a child and a employer which is a stoopid contrast is i have to live with the kid and i am responsible for their actions. A company can simply fire you i cannot simply fire my kids.

its this type of thing that has kids roaming around doing things they should not do knowing they are not going to get in trouble or punished, and then time when they are its just a little slap on the risk ..... no they need it. its the lack of concern for parents for the development of their child if they do not discipline and structure there child.

[SiblingRevelry]

Originally Posted by acerrak

kids need discipline and if you believe in the bible then you will believe when it says do not spare the rod. they need to be taught right from wrong and some times it comes through a spanking, but if you teach them now then the spanking one seem like anything compared to the trouble that you will save them later down the road.

The Bible says a lot of things that we don't do today. We don't practice chattel slavery--which was acceptable in Bible times. We don't kill women who fail to cry out when they're raped or take disobedient children to the elders of the city and have them stoned (that's in the Old Testament laws). Those are some biggies I can think of off the top of my head.

If we can change our minds about those things (and I will admit, here in the USA we fought a civil war, then had a 80+ year period of Jim Crow, and we're still working through the effects), then maybe it's worth looking at whether or not spanking your kids is useful or effective and should be done.

And I am not talking about a swat on a diapered rear end after you grab your child's arm to keep him from running into traffic--I'm talking about the whole ritualized "wait till your father gets home" going out and choosing a switch or picking a belt from dad's collection in the closet. Or the "child training" that some people engage in which involves whacking kids with 1/4 inch plumbing line.

I just believe that people need to think long and hard about spanking, whacking or hitting their children, instead of "well it says in the Bible, spare the rod and spoil the child." Again, I'd point you to things we don't do now even though the Bible approves of them.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

And I am not talking about a swat on a diapered rear end after you grab your child's arm to keep him from running into traffic--I'm talking about the whole ritualized "wait till your father gets home" going out and choosing a switch or picking a belt from dad's collection in the closet. Or the "child training" that some people engage in which involves whacking kids with 1/4 inch plumbing line.

I just believe that people need to think long and hard about spanking, whacking or hitting their children, instead of "well it says in the Bible, spare the rod and spoil the child." Again, I'd point you to things we don't do now even though the Bible approves of them.

that was my childhood. when i messed up I knew i was going to get it. But i did something i knew i shouldnt have done. Yes i got the switch from the tree yes i was whooped with it, and yes i learned from it and i turned out fine.

Kids dont need patty cake with their butt. They need to understand you do wrong it results in punishment. I will lecture my kids, telll them why i am doing this then give them the punishment they meritted.

Im not back handing them in the face or beating them to i see blood. thats abuse.

If this girl was my daughter which i have 2. I would tell her no to the party. her reaction would determine how i would proceed. I dont allow back talk. its a no-no. and if she would have raised her voice or even got a tone change i woudl have grounded her from going outside for a week. If she kept pressing my buttons you better believe im gonna whoop that bottum...

[johnny44]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

The Bible says a lot of things that we don't do today. We don't practice chattel slavery--which was acceptable in Bible times. We don't kill women who fail to cry out when they're raped or take disobedient children to the elders of the city and have them stoned (that's in the Old Testament laws). Those are some biggies I can think of off the top of my head.

If we can change our minds about those things (and I will admit, here in the USA we fought a civil war, then had a 80+ year period of Jim Crow, and we're still working through the effects), then maybe it's worth looking at whether or not spanking your kids is useful or effective and should be done.

And I am not talking about a swat on a diapered rear end after you grab your child's arm to keep him from running into traffic--I'm talking about the whole ritualized "wait till your father gets home" going out and choosing a switch or picking a belt from dad's collection in the closet. Or the "child training" that some people engage in which involves whacking kids with 1/4 inch plumbing line.

I just believe that people need to think long and hard about spanking, whacking or hitting their children, instead of "well it says in the Bible, spare the rod and spoil the child." Again, I'd point you to things we don't do now even though the Bible approves of them.

Yes we only spank them now we don't take them out and stone them.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

The Bible says a lot of things that we don't do today. We don't practice chattel slavery--which was acceptable in Bible times. We don't kill women who fail to cry out when they're raped or take disobedient children to the elders of the city and have them stoned (that's in the Old Testament laws). Those are some biggies I can think of off the top of my head.

If we can change our minds about those things (and I will admit, here in the USA we fought a civil war, then had a 80+ year period of Jim Crow, and we're still working through the effects), then maybe it's worth looking at whether or not spanking your kids is useful or effective and should be done.

And I am not talking about a swat on a diapered rear end after you grab your child's arm to keep him from running into traffic--I'm talking about the whole ritualized "wait till your father gets home" going out and choosing a switch or picking a belt from dad's collection in the closet. Or the "child training" that some people engage in which involves whacking kids with 1/4 inch plumbing line.

I just believe that people need to think long and hard about spanking, whacking or hitting their children, instead of "well it says in the Bible, spare the rod and spoil the child." Again, I'd point you to things we don't do now even though the Bible approves of them.

This just raises a fun question to think about. Should we have ever stopped doing what the Bible demonstrated in those things? Are we really better off by doing things the way we do now instead of the way the book tells us they were to be done?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

The Bible says a lot of things that we don't do today. We don't practice chattel slavery--which was acceptable in Bible times. We don't kill women who fail to cry out when they're raped or take disobedient children to the elders of the city and have them stoned (that's in the Old Testament laws). Those are some biggies I can think of off the top of my head.

If we can change our minds about those things (and I will admit, here in the USA we fought a civil war, then had a 80+ year period of Jim Crow, and we're still working through the effects), then maybe it's worth looking at whether or not spanking your kids is useful or effective and should be done.

And I am not talking about a swat on a diapered rear end after you grab your child's arm to keep him from running into traffic--I'm talking about the whole ritualized "wait till your father gets home" going out and choosing a switch or picking a belt from dad's collection in the closet. Or the "child training" that some people engage in which involves whacking kids with 1/4 inch plumbing line.

I just believe that people need to think long and hard about spanking, whacking or hitting their children, instead of "well it says in the Bible, spare the rod and spoil the child." Again, I'd point you to things we don't do nIow even though the Bible approves of them.

I think that is why our society is in the pitiful shape it is in now. Children need discipline.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think that is why our society is in the pitiful shape it is in now. Children need discipline.

Agreed. Children DO need discipline. But discipline does not always (or even often) need to involve physical battery. Swatting a diapered bottom just enough to get their attention is one thing. Leaving welts, bruises or other marks is a whole different thing. That should NEVER happen - at any age!!

And I still maintain that after a certain age, there are much more effective means of discipline. Curtail your teens social life by taking away their phone, their computer, their car, and their privilege of leaving the house. That's fine. But beating them? Really? We throw a fit and call him a batterer if a man hits his wife (to teach her a lesson. ya right!). But if he hits his 15 year old daughter we call that discipline. Does that seem right to you? it really doesn't to me.

When I was 14, our pastor's daughters and I got in some trouble together (nothing serious. We snuck out in the middle of the night and rode across town in our pj's on our bikes - remember, this was in the 60's and we live in a small town). My dad took my bike away for a month and grounded me to our yard for a week. That was plenty of "punishment" for what we'd done. I learned my lesson - believe me! On the other hand, our pastor beat his daughter's with a piece of rubber hose so badly that they had welts and bruises on their backsides and down the backs of their legs. At that point, I lost ever bit of respect I had ever had for the man. From then on I just saw him as a brutal bully.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Agreed. Children DO need discipline. But discipline does not always (or even often) need to involve physical battery. Swatting a diapered bottom just enough to get their attention is one thing. Leaving welts, bruises or other marks is a whole different thing. That should NEVER happen - at any age!!

lol my 11 year old doesnt wear a diaper does yours? However the punishment should always fit the bill. The older they get I just take away privelages, but when they fuss and fight with there siblings, i can only handle so much, i guarentee its not gonna be a little love pat to get there attention.


This is discipline. love pats dont do it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Agreed. Children DO need discipline. But discipline does not always (or even often) need to involve physical battery. Swatting a diapered bottom just enough to get their attention is one thing. Leaving welts, bruises or other marks is a whole different thing. That should NEVER happen - at any age!!

And I still maintain that after a certain age, there are much more effective means of discipline. Curtail your teens social life by taking away their phone, their computer, their car, and their privilege of leaving the house. That's fine. But beating them? Really? We throw a fit and call him a batterer if a man hits his wife (to teach her a lesson. ya right!). But if he hits his 15 year old daughter we call that discipline. Does that seem right to you? it really doesn't to me.

When I was 14, our pastor's daughters and I got in some trouble together (nothing serious. We snuck out in the middle of the night and rode across town in our pj's on our bikes - remember, this was in the 60's and we live in a small town). My dad took my bike away for a month and grounded me to our yard for a week. That was plenty of "punishment" for what we'd done. I learned my lesson - believe me! On the other hand, our pastor beat his daughter's with a piece of rubber hose so badly that they had welts and bruises on their backsides and down the backs of their legs. At that point, I lost ever bit of respect I had ever had for the man. From then on I just saw him as a brutal bully.

Unfortunately, many fathers know how to beat a child more quickly than to talk to a child. With proper use of instruction, withdrawal of privileges and extra chores, very little to no physical punishment is required to raise a child. In some cases physical punishment is very counter productive. When discipline and punishment is applied in anger, anger is passed on to the child. I was severely discipled in my spirit by the Lord on two different occasions in which I disciplined one of my boys in anger.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Agreed. Children DO need discipline. But discipline does not always (or even often) need to involve physical battery. Swatting a diapered bottom just enough to get their attention is one thing. Leaving welts, bruises or other marks is a whole different thing. That should NEVER happen - at any age!!

And I still maintain that after a certain age, there are much more effective means of discipline. Curtail your teens social life by taking away their phone, their computer, their car, and their privilege of leaving the house. That's fine. But beating them? Really? We throw a fit and call him a batterer if a man hits his wife (to teach her a lesson. ya right!). But if he hits his 15 year old daughter we call that discipline. Does that seem right to you? it really doesn't to me.

When I was 14, our pastor's daughters and I got in some trouble together (nothing serious. We snuck out in the middle of the night and rode across town in our pj's on our bikes - remember, this was in the 60's and we live in a small town). My dad took my bike away for a month and grounded me to our yard for a week. That was plenty of "punishment" for what we'd done. I learned my lesson - believe me! On the other hand, our pastor beat his daughter's with a piece of rubber hose so badly that they had welts and bruises on their backsides and down the backs of their legs. At that point, I lost ever bit of respect I had ever had for the man. From then on I just saw him as a brutal bully.

I think there is an age limit for physical disciple.

If you haven't taught them obedience by then it is probably pretty much a lost cause.

That is not saying they won't do wrong, but taking away privileges usually gets their attention.