Why I Hate Debate So Much.

[AreYouReady?]

Matt, you can't take everything everybody says to heart.

Someday, and you mark my words, someday you will have victory over this problem that you have to take medication for. The doctors may tell you that you will be on this for the rest of your life, but that is not true. Do not believe them. I know many people who have gotten off all medications. God is going to touch your life and you will be used to encourage others... to tell them what God has done for you.

In the meantime, you just going to have to let some comments just roll of your back like water rolls off a duck's back because unless somebody else has been there, they cannot possibly know the torment one goes through having a chemical imbalance and the praying one who has the imbalance does for healing.

Like Jesus said...Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. People really do not know.

Let it roll off the back, sweetie...let it roll off.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by Norman

No. I like to show people what the Bible really says.

Really says according to who? Mormons? Trinitarians? Ghandi? As long as the bible exists, people will argue about what it says, what it means by what it says...God Himself could step down, and all the human race could understand what He's saying, what He means by what He says, super clearly with no chance of error. And He could make it so we all have photographic memories, so we remember every single thing He said. And when He would finish, He would leave, and the first person would say, "Well, I'll tell you exactly what He meant when He said *Insert first thing He said here*" Heyyyy another 6000 years of inability to agree on what was meant. The bible is for no private interpretation. No one is the final authority on what the Lord Jesus Christ meant. It's not for any one religion, any one person, any one group, it isn't for anyone period to decide what Jesus meant when He inspired a man to write a sentence in the bible. We are responsible for our own salvation. It's good to have an elder that's been around longer than you to GUIDE your steps. But the only way to truly know would be to spend a lifetime of praying 16 hours a day, and fasting 6 days a week. If you can do this, then MAYBE, MAYBE you could tell me what one sentence in the bible means.

[The Matt]

I grew up in an Apostolic Pentecostal church from 5 to 10. I came back to that church from 18-21. And now I'm back for eight months (I think). In my 25 years of existence, I have spent a lot of that time, even when not in church, studying the Old King James version of the bible. Do you know what I have to show for that study? Absolutely nothing. Because I can't say for sure that I know what God meant about anything in the book save two scriptures. 1 John 4:7 and 8. God is love. That's the only thing I'm sure about. I've loved. Right now, the person I love the most in the entire world is my little Godchild. When I look at him, I don't even have the words to describe what I feel. The human language hasn't yet come up with a word for that. When I look at hinm, I think to myself, "Were it to save him from crying a single tear, were it to save him from feeling one single hurt, were it to save him from going through anything I've gone through, were it to make him live a happy life free of worries, cares, pain, mental troubles...Were it to save him from having to live life in this horrible world...I could have a crown of thorns shoved on my head. I could bear a wooden cross. I could hang from that cross. I could die. Were it to save him from all these things, there's nothing in this world or any other I wouldn't do to ensure that." Christlike? I don't know. But I haven't minced a word here. This is what I feel for that child. If I were able to feel that for the rest of humanity, then that's the love that God is talking about.

[The Matt]

Eventually, debate turns ugly. It all depends on how long it goes on. The human mind has a breaking point where emotion takes over smarts. Me personally, my emotions aren't very far from my smarts. When I see how far someone will go to prove a point, never mind basic human respect, never mind dignity, never mind fair rules of human conduct, MY POINT WILL BE HEARD and I will come out the victor in this, whether I have to get dirty about it or not. That just disgusts me. To see a human being deteriorate into an animal through their words...thats the bad thing about forums. Spoken argument, you can think on, but on forums, you have the words right in front of you. You can read them again and again, until you know for sure what this person was trying to put across. It's so ugly. So contradictory to goodness. White vs. Black. "I'm right." "No I'm right." "This is why I'm right. This is why you're wrong." "I counter with, this is why I'M right. This is why YOU'RE wrong." "You're deceived." "You've been lied to your whole life." "I can't believe you can't see this, it's so simple to see!" "You're completely blinded by your own delusions. I'll pray for you." "My prayers will be that God opens your eyes, instead of letting you be blinded" "Nyah nyah nah boo boo you so stupid" "Neener neener I know right and you don't HAAAA" That's what it breaks down to to me. Those last two sentences. Children, arguing over who has the better ice cream cone. Never mind that child A's ice cream cone is cracked and leaking out all the ice cream. Never mind that child B is talking about an ice cream cone he ate two days ago.

[The Matt]

Understand, I read all posts on this thread. And I considered what everyone said. And you're right, there's a difference between a debate and an arguement. But I don't think I've ever seen a debate that didn't turn into an argument. I'm sure if I thought about it, and went over old threads, I could find one. But right now, I cannot think of a single one. And even if I did find one, that doesn't change the fact that person A left said debate unchanged, still believes person B is wrong, and feels that person is completely lost because of his or her beliefs. The thoughts behind the words...that's the ugly thing. Debate whips around and builds up. There are no clear cut winners. It doesn't help accomplish anything. It's simply, "I know this, and I know this, and obviously I know more about it than you. I will talk, I will give you a chance to respond, and then I will cut the neck of your argument with my next well-thought out, awesome sounding bullet. Said bullet will kill your argument. I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm talking to someone, and they contradict something I said, and I can't think of any other thing to back up what I said, I feel pretty stupid. And more often than not, the other person is going to point out that I have nothing more to say, probably jeer about it, making me feel even stupider. Is that what debate is about? Making your "opponent" feel like a lesser person, to bring down their intelligence, to demean them? Make them feel like a failure? Destroy their belief? I know me personally, I could play the atheist, use common sense and logic to destroy a religious argument, and make the other person feel as if they're dumb for believing what they believe. How is debating about religions, religious views, etc. any different from that? *sigh* Case in point, I loathe debate, argument, and basically everything that human nature can devolve and and turn itself into, given opportunity and a little bit of leverage.

[The Matt]

It's weird how the most intelligent people in the world can prattle on for an hour straight, sound incredibly brilliant, be thought of as a genius. But then, you think about what he said, and you realize, he didn't actually say ANYTHING in the hour he spoke. I challenge you to read a debate that went on, any debate about anything. And I challenge you to show me one single accomplishment, one good thing that came out of it. Show me a mind that changed on a single thought for the better. If you can show me an instance when human emotion didn't take over and turn it into a personal thing, then I'll shut my mouth forever on the subject. I think if I've shown myself to be nothing else here, I've shown myself to be a man of my word.

[houston]

It was a genuine concern you moron.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by houston

It was a genuine concern you moron.

Of course it was. I mean, you'd have to say that when called out on it right? If it was in fact a genuine concern, then thank you, and I'll be fine. But I doubt it. If it was anything else, well I'm playing it safe by just deciding not to respond to you again in my time here. I think that's what can be done that will work out best for both of us.

[Dordrecht]

Strange thread........

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by The Matt

It's weird how the most intelligent people in the world can prattle on for an hour straight, sound incredibly brilliant, be thought of as a genius. But then, you think about what he said, and you realize, he didn't actually say ANYTHING in the hour he spoke. I challenge you to read a debate that went on, any debate about anything. And I challenge you to show me one single accomplishment, one good thing that came out of it. Show me a mind that changed on a single thought for the better. If you can show me an instance when human emotion didn't take over and turn it into a personal thing, then I'll shut my mouth forever on the subject. I think if I've shown myself to be nothing else here, I've shown myself to be a man of my word.

I don't know about you, but I come here to change my mind; I'd have to list Dordt as someone who has changed my mind, actually, and we might be read as being barely civil to each other. Our opinions are quite different on many issues; but I would consider it a loss if I got no reply from him.

Admittedly, we tend to be quite sure of ourselves in this country, and often don't debate very well. I think this reflects a general level of frustration, maybe, that I note lessens as time goes by, toward replies especially. You are relatively new to this format, yes? You will have a different view, I think, after another year of it. One learns, hopefully, to read what is meant rather than what might be said; and those that do not, or have not yet, needn't be engaged?

But don't be deceived that your light doesn't shine
despite a snarky reply...and examine them all for truth, imo.
Tough to upset someone with something that contains no truth.