Do you AGREE?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Some would even argue it's the catalyst for most... I'm not sure if it's the reason... but sure is one of the main things packed away in all their baggage they take with them.

A fair response, but am not quite sure how your follow up response to AreYouReady? warrants this:

[KeptByTheWord]

Bitterness was not the reason we left the UPC. We left because after being a part of many, many different churches in the apostolic realm, from conservative to more liberal, because we began to see a pattern emerge in each church that we were tired of. The Lord began to lead us out of those "Babylon" churches into a place of deeper fellowship with Him.

So the reason we left the mainstream apostolic church system, was because of the Word and the Spirit leading us to something greater than we could ever have known being a part of a man made system.

But I know for a fact that bitterness has prohibited many of my family members who have left the apostolic movement as a whole to become bitter, and disillusioned, and to lose all faith in God at all. That is very, very saddening to me.

I am so thankful that our relationship with the Lord has grown, and matured beyond anything we were able to be as a part of traditional oneness churches.

Bitterness is a terrible enemy of the cross, and it can be found in all of us, if we give in to a "pity party" feeling, and feel that we have been so wronged, that even the cross is unable to bring us back into focus.

The only way to resolve the bitterness and turmoil of heart that comes from being terribley wronged in the house of your friends, is to focus your life back on the cross, and Calvary. It is the only way.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. I think it's part of the process. Like grief. There are stages. Anyone who has lost a significant period of their lives serving traditions of men and human organizations while being told they were serving Christ need to be bitter for a period. Then they have to reconcile themselves with their current understanding without spinning out into crazy living. After this they have to begin the discovery, finding what they truly believe and what is truly in the Bible. Then they can find their rest in Christ Jesus alone.

You make a good point here. I haven't made the connection with 'grief and bitterness' as something to recover from. But you are right in the aspect that when something you believed in that was told to you pops like a balloon, it's like a "death" that needs to be grieved. But there are many pastors who would not look at it in this fashion.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't think anyone would leave with a smile on their face skipping along happy about wasted years, time, and money. Not to mention... all the family they may be leaving behind that THEY WON to the insanity... who now disown them.

So...some, who does not know what the one who is leaving is thinking might call it bitterness, but in fact, it may be more of a grieving process?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

I've been accused of being too black and white and too plain about some things...

You know I have a friend that is of mixed racial heritage and he gets defensive too when I try to tell him that fried okra is not that healthy in large quantities.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Bitterness was not the reason we left the UPC. We left because after being a part of many, many different churches in the apostolic realm, from conservative to more liberal, because we began to see a pattern emerge in each church that we were tired of. The Lord began to lead us out of those "Babylon" churches into a place of deeper fellowship with Him.

So the reason we left the mainstream apostolic church system, was because of the Word and the Spirit leading us to something greater than we could ever have known being a part of a man made system.

But I know for a fact that bitterness has prohibited many of my family members who have left the apostolic movement as a whole to become bitter, and disillusioned, and to lose all faith in God at all. That is very, very saddening to me.

I am so thankful that our relationship with the Lord has grown, and matured beyond anything we were able to be as a part of traditional oneness churches.

Bitterness is a terrible enemy of the cross, and it can be found in all of us, if we give in to a "pity party" feeling, and feel that we have been so wronged, that even the cross is unable to bring us back into focus.

The only way to resolve the bitterness and turmoil of heart that comes from being terribley wronged in the house of your friends, is to focus your life back on the cross, and Calvary. It is the only way.

This is a very key distinction. I do believe that the latter is far more common.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

WOW! Such vitriol coming from someone who claims to receive it from others. Does that make you feel better?

You mistake correction for vitriol. I'm sure it's probably not the first time you've done that.

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

What if I reword my question to you to be ...Unless one becomes bitter and left a church, how would one even know what is in the minds of people who leave?

That question would be much more appropriately worded, absolutely. And unless one is operating in the gift of discernment, they won't know unless they have asked, counselled, ministered to, and listened to that person. My response is totally reflective of only those I've spoken with directly regarding such a situation...

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Perhaps when replying to your posts, one should totally disengage themselves from having any direct post referring to you at all? Would that suit you?

In your case... that would not only suit me, be appropriate, and appreciated.... but would be one of the most wonderful gifts I've been given today!!!!!!!

[KeptByTheWord]

AYR - have you noticed each time you get involved in a conversation with Bro. Robbins, and you exhibit a different point of view that his, that he can't handle a discussion with differing points of view without becoming vitrolic and hateful in his accusations, and responses?

I believe Bro. Robbins means well.. and is trying deperately to make his point.... but I personally don't desire to debate someone who cannot have a discussion without throwing accusations such as (you can't read) and so on into the discussion.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

AYR - have you noticed each time you get involved in a conversation with Bro. Robbins, and you exhibit a different point of view that his, that he can't handle a discussion with differing points of view without becoming vitrolic and hateful in his accusations, and responses?

I believe Bro. Robbins means well.. and is trying deperately to make his point.... but I personally don't desire to debate someone who cannot have a discussion without throwing accusations such as (you can't read) and so on into the discussion.

When they don't read what I wrote... and misrepresent it... then I have to go through my list of questions as to why it seems one particular poster has difficulty in reading what I posted and taking it without adding to it or filling in between the lines.

My first question is to ask if they by some chance have a reading disability that prohibits them from seeing plain English... the next questions to ask are things like...are you just slow? Did you maybe hit your head today and that has blurred your vision?

And believe me... no vitriol here at all... just plain spoken... that's all.

[KeptByTheWord]

Bro. Robbins... I really respect you Bro.! You are obviously so sincere, and desiring to be pleasing to God. But... whether intentional or not... sometimes you come across just a bit rough across the edges... or something to that effect

I think we agree on more than we disagree on... just iron sharpening iron here....

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Bro. Robbins... I really respect you Bro.! You are obviously so sincere, and desiring to be pleasing to God. But... whether intentional or not... sometimes you come across just a bit rough across the edges... or something to that effect

I think we agree on more than we disagree on... just iron sharpening iron here....

The church of Jesus Christ could learn a lot by being rough across the edges... I'm tired of mamby pamby, limp wristed, panty-waisted, don't want to offend anybody, looking for a back bone, bowing the knee to public opinion, asking permission to live for Christ, Christians I see the Pentecostal church filled with. Our apathy, lack of letting our yes be yes and no be no is the very reason our nation is in the trouble it's in today. We've been so willing to compromise to get along that our whole existence is in the middle of every single road we can find...

It's time that the Church be radical in our Compassion, Radical in Our Zeal, Radical in our Anquish over Lost Souls going to Hell, Radical in our desire to die out to sin, radical in our pursuit for Jesus, radical in our stand for Truth, and radical in our not being mistaken for which we stand. The church needs to develop a thick skin, and move forth as the mighty army we've been called to be....