Not sure where to go from this point...

[Nitehawk013]

For all the good that can be done by this forum, here is an example of all that is bad about it. Someone has an issue where clearly the first thing they should do is sit down with their Pastor and talk through an issue. Instead they get advice like "just leave" and "don't talk to your Pastor". Unethical nonsense. Showing no respect for the man of God who serves her.

As to this specific situation, let me say what many would refuse to say. Evenuntodeath, non-conformity is one thing...rebellion is another. I don't mean rebellion like some do, where every disagreement is labeled rebellion. I mean it this way. If you can never submit yourself to a church and a leader, and just suck it up and accept that you will never 100% agree with any church or leader, then the problem is YOU not them. Submission and faithfulness is not measured when you agree, but when you disagree.

You have a stable church that was there for you when your life was a mess by your own admission. This church and leaders work with you and nurse you back to health and now all of a sudden you are quick to want to toss them aside and move on because you don't agree with some standards? Sorry but that speaks to your rebellious nature more than their overbearing standards.

I do not know what leader you are speaking of, but the knowledge I have of the Pastors I know is that if you talk to them, they will probably tell you that even if you disagree and don't "line up" they will still want you to come to church and be a part of your church, even if you cannot work in some areas of the church. Most Pastors will still love and care for you despite disagreement, as long as you aren't openly causing division or stirring up little rebellions. At which point YOU would be the one wrong and they would have a scriptural right to mark you as one who cause4s division or sows discord.

My Pastor and I are completely opposed on tithing. I think it is a horrid doctrine. He knows I feel this way. I spoke to him about it. He also know sI don't think we should bother with some of the standards that are preached. Despite this, I am a minister who teaches from the pulpit very often. He knows that while I disagree, I am loyal and love th echurch. So I don't spread my feelings form the pulpit. This is where faithfulness and love for a church is shown. Not in times of agreement, but disagreement.

If you feel you need to leave, then prayerfully consider it, but at least have enough respect fo rhte man who preached salvation to you to sit down and talk to him. Otherwise, it speaks to your problem, not the churches. And if you do not bury a rebellious nature it will just follow you to the next church where you'll find some reason to not want to conform to somethign there as well.

In the end, if you do not deal with it properly you will be like some on this very forum who never go to any church be4cause they have delluded themselves into thinking they can just stay home and "love God" while creating whatever religious rules for themselves they think are good. They get so blinded by their own rebellion and self righteousness that they cannot see how wrong they are. That sister is the path you are on if you do not temper your non-conformist nature with maturity and understanding of submission and allegiance.

[Evenuntodeath]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

As to this specific situation, let me say what many would refuse to say. Evenuntodeath, non-conformity is one thing...rebellion is another. I don't mean rebellion like some do, where every disagreement is labeled rebellion. I mean it this way. If you can never submit yourself to a church and a leader, and just suck it up and accept that you will never 100% agree with any church or leader, then the problem is YOU not them. Submission and faithfulness is not measured when you agree, but when you disagree.

You have a stable church that was there for you when your life was a mess by your own admission. This church and leaders work with you and nurse you back to health and now all of a sudden you are quick to want to toss them aside and move on because you don't agree with some standards? Sorry but that speaks to your rebellious nature more than their overbearing standards.

I do not know what leader you are speaking of, but the knowledge I have of the Pastors I know is that if you talk to them, they will probably tell you that even if you disagree and don't "line up" they will still want you to come to church and be a part of your church, even if you cannot work in some areas of the church. Most Pastors will still love and care for you despite disagreement, as long as you aren't openly causing division or stirring up little rebellions. At which point YOU would be the one wrong and they would have a scriptural right to mark you as one who cause4s division or sows discord.

My Pastor and I are completely opposed on tithing. I think it is a horrid doctrine. He knows I feel this way. I spoke to him about it. He also know sI don't think we should bother with some of the standards that are preached. Despite this, I am a minister who teaches from the pulpit very often. He knows that while I disagree, I am loyal and love th echurch. So I don't spread my feelings form the pulpit. This is where faithfulness and love for a church is shown. Not in times of agreement, but disagreement.

If you feel you need to leave, then prayerfully consider it, but at least have enough respect fo rhte man who preached salvation to you to sit down and talk to him. Otherwise, it speaks to your problem, not the churches. And if you do not bury a rebellious nature it will just follow you to the next church where you'll find some reason to not want to conform to somethign there as well.

In the end, if you do not deal with it properly you will be like some on this very forum who never go to any church be4cause they have delluded themselves into thinking they can just stay home and "love God" while creating whatever religious rules for themselves they think are good. They get so blinded by their own rebellion and self righteousness that they cannot see how wrong they are. That sister is the path you are on if you do not temper your non-conformist nature with maturity and understanding of submission and allegiance.

Ok, thank you. If I'm honest with myself, I can admit that maybe there is some rebelliousness in my heart. But who doesn't?

Sometimes I'm apprehensive about the idea of marrying and raising my future children in UPC. My friend who was pretty liberal is now married and very conservative. And not that its a bad environment for children, but sometimes I think, what if my daughter wanted to play sports like soccer or basketball? Would I really forbid her because of the skirt dress code? What is she wanted to do ballet? Gymnastics? I want my children, (daughters) to live a life filled with many experiences

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

Sometimes I'm apprehensive about the idea of marrying and raising my future children in UPC. My friend who was pretty liberal is now married and very conservative. And not that its a bad environment for children, but sometimes I think, what if my daughter wanted to play sports like soccer or basketball? Would I really forbid her because of the skirt dress code? What is she wanted to do ballet? Gymnastics? I want my children, (daughters) to live a life filled with many experiences

I think this is a valid concern, and there are Pros and Cons.

There is nothing more important than your Children having a relationship with God, being filled with the Spirit of God, and living a life that is pleasing to the Lord.

I also think that along with that, it's important for children to find and express their talents, be it musical, sports, etc.

I would hope that you could find a balance where you can raise your children in the love and fear of God, while at the same time helping them to find and express their gifts.

If your daughter had a desire to play sports, or become a musician or a ballerina, I would think that it would be great to encourage her talents.

Not to mention that if a child excels in a sport, they can earn a scholarship and further their education.

Aso, being involved in sports can keep children active and out of trouble.

I pray you can strike the balance that you are looking for, in that you can find a church where you can live for God with your whole heart, and where you and your family can develop and express your God given talents.

Would it be possible to stay where you are in church, discuss your real concerns with your Pastor, and let him know that there are areas that you can't agree on?