"You Can't Be Saved Without a Pastor."

brodano · #1 08-28-2012, 02:07 PM

I've seen familys name thier boys after the pastor. and also men comb and part thier hair the same way. It still goes on today. i've seen out here in Indiana at many UC churchs. We are to be Christ like Not like man. People need to be themselves and seek after what God wants you to be. He dont want Robots.

trialedbyfire · #2 08-28-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brodano

I've seen familys name thier boys after the pastor. and also men comb and part thier hair the same way. It still goes on today. i've seen out here in Indiana at many UC churchs. We are to be Christ like Not like man. People need to be themselves and seek after what God wants you to be. He dont want Robots.

There's nothing wrong with that.

brodano · #3 08-28-2012, 02:14 PM

We all need role models in our lives, But we can go to far into pastoral worship. I've seen it. When the Pastor falls it leaves many saints confused and hard to live for God because of so much trust in The man.

Praxeas · #4 08-28-2012, 03:23 PM

Let's reverse it. ARE you saved if you don't have a pastor? What I mean, someone that refuses to be a part of a local congregation, contrary to the scriptural definition of what "church" is, are they really one with Christ?

1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,

Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Or allowing God to give you pastors?

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

1Pe 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:
1Pe 5:2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;
1Pe 5:3 not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

It's not that you can't become saved except through a pastor. It SHOULD be that if you ARE Christ's you'd want to be a part of the body, not separate. You'd WANT what God gave you, not rejecting it

Esaias · #5 08-28-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's not that you can't become saved except through a pastor. It SHOULD be that if you ARE Christ's you'd want to be a part of the body, not separate. You'd WANT what God gave you, not rejecting it

I suspect a lot of Christians WANT what God offers, but they just haven't found those gifts yet. And some, after a long time searching, become discouraged and give up looking.

Not everyone 'out of church' is 'rejecting' God, Christ, His church, or anything else except what they believe to be false doctrine, false religion, etc.

And this applies across the spectrum of beliefs, by the way.

Just sayin'.

MissBrattified · #6 08-28-2012, 04:26 PM

Romans 10 basically asks the question, "How can you be saved [believe] without a preacher?" That's not the same as "without a pastor." It essentially means, "How can you be saved unless someone be sent to preach you the Gospel?" True--how could we be saved if someone hadn't bothered to "preach" to us? We can't believe in a God we've heard nothing about and we can't hear about Him unless someone who has heard shares that with us. The context of that passage isn't about whether or not you can be saved if you don't have a pastor. I imagine if someone lived in some area of the world where there were no churches, they could still be saved, so long as at some point they heard the Gospel and acted upon it.

Church attendance and submitting to authority are somewhat separate issues. IMO, it is healthy and beneficial to gather with other saints to worship and be taught the Word, and it is good to be accountable to leadership that "watches for your souls."

The problem is, people aren't pragmatic enough and they think that finding a church and leadership is about finding a pastor and people who all agree with their particular interpretations of scripture. Good luck with that.

1. Your brothers and sisters in Christ deserve to have your love and fellowship whether you think they're right about everything or not, and

2. Submitting to your pastoral and church authorities will usually involve submitting your will and your ideas to the will and ideas of other people. Unless that entails going against scripture, being asked to sin, or having to tolerate [real] abuse, then submission is good for the Christian and accountability is even better.

bbyrd009 · #7 08-28-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

I suspect a lot of Christians WANT what God offers, but they just haven't found those gifts yet. And some, after a long time searching, become discouraged and give up looking.

Not everyone 'out of church' is 'rejecting' God, Christ, His church, or anything else except what they believe to be false doctrine, false religion, etc.

And this applies across the spectrum of beliefs, by the way.

Just sayin'.

I am convinced that most will never "find" these gifts, as they are relying on their pastor--and his platitudes--to lead them there.
"Seek your OWN salvation..."
I wonder what a pastor in wolf's clothes would look like, anyway?
Not saying that there aren't many, many good pastors;
but truly, ones pastor is not responsible for ones salvation,
and he will not save you in the day of judgement.

RandyWayne · #8 08-28-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

There's nothing wrong with that.

Not if you like the name to begin with, but it does seem a bit creepy if you name your kid to "honor" the pastor. Why stop at the pastor? Why not go all the way to the top and name a son Jesus?

trialedbyfire · #9 08-28-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Not if you like the name to begin with, but it does seem a bit creepy if you name your kid to "honor" the pastor. Why stop at the pastor? Why not go all the way to the top and name a son Jesus?

Often times people name their children after people who have greatly effected them. I feel like out of all the people anyone could name their child after a good pastor would be a good choice of names.

bbyrd009 · #10 08-28-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Often times people name their children after people who have greatly effected them. I feel like out of all the people anyone could name their child after a good pastor would be a good choice of names.

Ya; nevermind that "curse of the Jr." thing...

It is disturbed, usually. Sorry.