All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Can you believe Jesus is something other than God and be saved? Scripture for that? How about Genesis-Revelation? "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God." Jesus is the Living Word---and He's God! "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." The whole thing is about Him---if you don't believe the Word you can't be saved. I don't get the confusion.

Can you believe He's just a teacher, prophet, good man, important historical figure and be saved? He is both Lord and Christ!

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The claim that one must do that is a false claim, has no scriptural basis, and has nothing to do with redemption/salvation.

Here's a good salvation scripture which the majority of oneness Pentecostals reject, claiming that it's a scripture on how to keep being saved or some such bunk.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Notice, there is no requirement that one need to believe that Jesus is God in the scripture to be saved. One is required to believe in one's heart that God raised Him (Jesus) from the dead though....per scripture.

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The claim that one must do that is a false claim, has no scriptural basis, and has nothing to do with redemption/salvation.

Here's a good salvation scripture which the majority of oneness Pentecostals reject, claiming that it's a scripture on how to keep being saved or some such bunk.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Notice, there is no requirement that one need to believe that Jesus is God in the scripture to be saved. One is required to believe in one's heart that God raised Him (Jesus) from the dead though....per scripture.

In my opinion, to accept the Lord Jesus is to accept that He is God. Trinitarians and Oneness both agree on this. Both factions use John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Farfel

In my opinion, to accept the Lord Jesus is to accept that He is God. Trinitarians and Oneness both agree on this. Both factions use John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The passage says that you have to believe God raised Him from the dead. Your opinion that one must believe Jesus is God to be redeemed/saved has no scriptural support.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved.

John 8

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he...


John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

John 8

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he...

Taking it one passage at a time. Yep, the passage in John 8 is almost always the first go-to scripture for proving that one MUST believe that Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The passage isn't suggesting any such thing though. Read it again....'you must believe that I am He'. Who is the "He"? One only need to read the preceding passages to find out who the "He" is which is being referred to in the passage...

Joh 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Joh 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Joh 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The "He" is the one whom His Father sent, the one from above, who was not of this world. Not in any shape, form or fashion can one force the passage to say that 'unless you believe that I am God you shall die in your sins'. It's not there.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Taking it one passage at a time. Yep, the passage in John 8 is almost always the first go-to scripture for proving that one MUST believe that Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The passage isn't suggesting any such thing though. Read it again....'you must believe that I am He'. Who is the "He"? One only need to read the preceding passages to find out who the "He" is which is being referred to in the passage...

Joh 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Joh 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Joh 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The "He" is the one whom His Father sent, the one from above, who was not of this world. Not in any shape, form or fashion can one force the passage to say that 'unless you believe that I am God you shall die in your sins'. It's not there.

Isaiah is very explicit on who the Father is. That is why the angel came to Mary to confirm "the Lord God shall give unto him the house of David" and why the first thing the angel told Joseph in his dream, "Joseph, thou son of David." As Christ, he was the son of God, as a man, he was the son of David. No wonder the Pharisees wanted him dead. They didn't understand Him and were totally offended by Him.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Isaiah is very explicit on who the Father is. That is why the angel came to Mary to confirm "the Lord God shall give unto him the house of David" and why the first thing the angel told Joseph in his dream, "Joseph, thou son of David." As Christ, he was the son of God, as a man, he was the son of David. No wonder the Pharisees wanted him dead. They didn't understand Him and were totally offended by Him.

Jesus is very explicit who the Father is. The Father is His Father. His Father is in Him, He is in His Father. If we were to believe oneness pentecostals, Jesus was confused as to who He was.

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Jesus is very explicit who the Father is. The Father is His Father. His Father is in Him, He is in His Father. If we were to believe oneness pentecostals, Jesus was confused as to who He was.

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

You better read Isaiah 9:6 again and see if He is preaching to you.

[deafdriscoll]

I can not believe the spiritual immaturity of such a statement as this post title.
1. jesus said all who confess me as their savior will be saved.
2. jesus said that only the father knows certain things, such as; who goes to heaven, when the return of christ will be.
3. jesus left us to go to heaven and the Holy spirit came here to be with us.

one God- 3 persons.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You better read Isaiah 9:6 again and see if He is preaching to you.

You better read Jesus again and believe what He says about His Father and God.