All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Yes, but the Holy Ghost will lead them into all truth but it is up to them to except truth or reject it.

A very cliche type answer. If the former be true, "Yes,but...", then all Trinitarians are not lost, and the title of this thread is a lie. As for the latter, "the Holy Ghost will lead them into all truth but it is up to them to except truth or reject it", how does he lead them into "all truth"? Does the term "all truth" refer only to the Godhead? We Apostolics sure act as if that were the case. In fact, the minute a Trinitarian decides to embrace our doctrine, we then insist that he stop seeking more truth. We want him to check his brain at the door and not think for himself anymore. In effect, we tell them," Ok, you have all truth now. No need to keep seeking God. Once you've embraced Acts 2:38 and the Oneness doctrine, then there is nothing more as to enlightenment you need from God".

In the context that verse is quoted ("all truth"), we are all in trouble. In issues such as tithing, church government, eschatology, there are many varying views. So someone is wrong. Someone does not have "all truth". Quoting this verse in this context implies there will be those who literally will come to a place where there won't be anything more they can learn from the Spirit. The logical conclusion then is that we are using this verse out of context. To paraphrase John 16:13, Jesus was saying that whatever the Spirit leads us into will always be the truth. So again, with all the varying opinions on so many topics with our ranks, someone has believed teachings that are error. In fact, I dare say we ALL are guilty of this in some area. So I guess we ALL are going to hell.

As for the Godhead issue, let's get real here. I dare say that maybe TEN PERCENT of Oneness Christians have really had some sort of revelation or illumination from God concerning the Oneness doctrine. They embrace it because.....

A) They were raised in a Oneness church.

B) They came to Christ in a Oneness church and were discipled by Oneness believers.

I had had the Holy Ghost for 11 years and had been a licensed Assembly of God minister for 6 years when the Spirit further clarified the Godhead to me. This came after a year of agonizing study and prayer. So, to say that a Trinitarian who has the Holy Ghost will eventually be led into the truth about the Oneness doctrine is really not true any more than Oneness believers will finally be led into a uniform truth in all the other areas I mentioned previously. So be very careful in making such bold statements as "All Trinitarians are Lost". If you are judged by God with the same standard you heap upon Trinitarians, chances are you will also be in hell. We are fallible humans, even with the Holy Ghost. We are going to miss the mark doctrinally on some point. That is why God had to save us by his grace.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

A very cliche type answer. If the former be true, "Yes,but...", then all Trinitarians are not lost, and the title of this thread is a lie. As for the latter, "the Holy Ghost will lead them into all truth but it is up to them to except truth or reject it", how does he lead them into "all truth"? Does the term "all truth" refer only to the Godhead? We Apostolics sure act as if that were the case. In fact, the minute a Trinitarian decides to embrace our doctrine, we then insist that he stop seeking more truth. We want him to check his brain at the door and not think for himself anymore. In effect, we tell them," Ok, you have all truth now. No need to keep seeking God. Once you've embraced Acts 2:38 and the Oneness doctrine, then there is nothing more as to enlightenment you need from God".

In the context that verse is quoted ("all truth"), we are all in trouble. In issues such as tithing, church government, eschatology, there are many varying views. So someone is wrong. Someone does not have "all truth". Quoting this verse in this context implies there will be those who literally will come to a place where there won't be anything more they can learn from the Spirit. The logical conclusion then is that we are using this verse out of context. To paraphrase John 16:13, Jesus was saying that whatever the Spirit leads us into will always be the truth. So again, with all the varying opinions on so many topics with our ranks, someone has believed teachings that are error. In fact, I dare say we ALL are guilty of this in some area. So I guess we ALL are going to hell.

As for the Godhead issue, let's get real here. I dare say that maybe TEN PERCENT of Oneness Christians have really had some sort of revelation or illumination from God concerning the Oneness doctrine. They embrace it because.....

A) They were raised in a Oneness church.

B) They came to Christ in a Oneness church and were discipled by Oneness believers.

I had had the Holy Ghost for 11 years and had been a licensed Assembly of God minister for 6 years when the Spirit further clarified the Godhead to me. This came after a year of agonizing study and prayer. So, to say that a Trinitarian who has the Holy Ghost will eventually be led into the truth about the Oneness doctrine is really not true any more than Oneness believers will finally be led into a uniform truth in all the other areas I mentioned previously. So be very careful in making such bold statements as "All Trinitarians are Lost". If you are judged by God with the same standard you heap upon Trinitarians, chances are you will also be in hell. We are fallible humans, even with the Holy Ghost. We are going to miss the mark doctrinally on some point. That is why God had to save us by his grace.

Sorry but what I said is the truth. God will not share his glory with nobody! If you are worshiping a second person it is sin. But like Cornelius
, if your heart is right you will see the direction some how of the Holy Ghost leading to all truth.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Sorry but what I said is the truth. God will not share his glory with nobody! If you are worshiping a second person it is sin. But like Cornelius
, if your heart is right you will see the direction some how of the Holy Ghost leading to all truth.

So you think Cornelius understood the Godhead at his conversion? Bunk.

As for "worshiping a second person", most Trinitarian pew warmers are not even thinking in those terms. I know. I was one.

But as for your last sentence, then you are in trouble either way. If you personally haven't seen ALL truth on every matter in the Bible, then you will be in hell. If you claim that right now you do have literally ALL truth, then you're going to go to hell for lying. Why not humble yourself before God and stop glorying in "being right" and start "Glorying in nothing save the cross of Christ" as Paul admonished?

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So you think Cornelius understood the Godhead at his conversion? Bunk.

As for "worshiping a second person", most Trinitarian pew warmers are not even thinking in those terms. I know. I was one.

But as for your last sentence, then you are in trouble either way. If you personally haven't seen ALL truth on every matter in the Bible, then you will be in hell. If you claim that right now you do have literally ALL truth, then you're going to go to hell for lying. Why not humble yourself before God and stop glorying in "being right" and start "Glorying in nothing save the cross of Christ" as Paul admonished?

No I think God was leading him to all truth

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

No I think God was leading him to all truth

And when did Cornelius arrive at "all truth"? Do you have "all truth"? Why are you skirting this issue?

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

And when did Cornelius arrive at "all truth"? Do you have "all truth"? Why are you skirting this issue?

If I missing something I believe God will lead me to it and I pray that I will accept it (and I'm speaking concerning the doctrine cause I know God still has a lot to work on me personally) but this is a huge deal cause its idolatry and Like I said God will not share his glory with nobody or anything! If you have an issue with that then you can take it up with God cause he is the one that hates it so much.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

If I missing something I believe God will lead me to it and I pray that I will accept it (and I'm speaking concerning the doctrine cause I know God still has a lot to work on me personally) but this is a huge deal cause its idolatry and Like I said God will not share his glory with nobody or anything! If you have an issue with that then you can take it up with God cause he is the one that hates it so much.

Technically, Trinitarians are not guilty of teaching that God is sharing his glory with anybody. Most do believe in one "being". They don't claim that this "being" is sharing his glory with anybody. I am highly critical of the Trinity doctrine, but there is enough criticism to heap upon it without misrepresenting it, and we do.
Concerning doctrine, do you believe you are 100% correct on every point, or are their areas you are still learning? If the latter is true, and you died tonight, wouldn't you have perished without all truth and go to hell?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

If I missing something I believe God will lead me to it and I pray that I will accept it (and I'm speaking concerning the doctrine cause I know God still has a lot to work on me personally) but this is a huge deal cause its idolatry and Like I said God will not share his glory with nobody or anything! If you have an issue with that then you can take it up with God cause he is the one that hates it so much.

But in the meanwhile, are you saved before God leads you to what is missing?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

If I missing something I believe God will lead me to it and I pray that I will accept it (and I'm speaking concerning the doctrine cause I know God still has a lot to work on me personally) but this is a huge deal cause its idolatry and Like I said God will not share his glory with nobody or anything! If you have an issue with that then you can take it up with God cause he is the one that hates it so much.

So, if you pass Jesus comes, while God is still trying to lead you to something very important, does that mean you will not be saved???? Because there are still things that are very important that He is still trying to lead you and every Christian into!!! So, you better hope you are saved by His work and grace and not your perfection.

We are all lost in some areas of our Christian understanding, but thank God we are saved by Jesus blood, and His life!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

No I think God was leading him to all truth

Originally Posted by Originalist

And when did Cornelius arrive at "all truth"? Do you have "all truth"? Why are you skirting this issue?

was he saved before he got all truth?