If you are trinitarian.....

[AreYouReady?]

Hometown guy, I asked you a question in the other trinitarian thread if you have been OP all your life. You did not answer in the other thread, so I will ask you in this one the same question. There is a reason why I am asking.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Hometown guy, I asked you a question in the other trinitarian thread if you have been OP all your life. You did not answer in the other thread, so I will ask you in this one the same question. There is a reason why I am asking.

Yes I grew up in the praxs church, although my dad is trinitarian and most of my family

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Hometown guy, I asked you a question in the other trinitarian thread if you have been OP all your life. You did not answer in the other thread, so I will ask you in this one the same question. There is a reason why I am asking.

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Yes I grew up in the praxs church, although my dad is trinitarian and most of my family

Hometown, I just want you to keep in mind that people outside of OP churches are looking for Jesus when they become aware that He exists.

The pagans/heathens, the Catholics, the Muslims and the atheists/agnostics (such as Timmy ) are all questioning the existence of a true and powerful God. I heard about the dead man on the cross all my life. I heard he was a Savior, yet...where I was...I saw no saving grace in that environment. Everytime I looked up, he was dead on the cross. The works were dead. I wondered where Jesus was staying?

When I was seeking for Jesus, the Godhead theology was far from what I was looking for. In fact, I believe that arguing over theology of this sort would have hindered my search for Christ. To see, hear or read about Christians almost coming to blows over the definition of the Godhead would have made me wonder where Jesus was in all of this.

I thank God that He saw fit to lead me to where I was supposed to be at the time. It was a long time after baptism before I understood the importance of why God led me to a UPC church for my baptism.

However, it was the arrogance, shoddy treatment and judgmental attitudes of the people in the UPC churches I attended that made me question if Christ had any disciples in His church there.

It is my humble opinion that this thread was not started out of concern for the lost trinitarian. This thread has the feel of one who just wanted to stir the pot and liven things up on this site. He succeeded in his little quest.

You just wanted to see the fur fly didn't ya Epley?

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Hometown, I just want you to keep in mind that people outside of OP churches are looking for Jesus when they become aware that He exists.

The pagans/heathens, the Catholics, the Muslims and the atheists/agnostics (such as Timmy ) are all questioning the existence of a true and powerful God. I heard about the dead man on the cross all my life. I heard he was a Savior, yet...where I was...I saw no saving grace in that environment. Everytime I looked up, he was dead on the cross. The works were dead. I wondered where Jesus was staying?

When I was seeking for Jesus, the Godhead theology was far from what I was looking for. In fact, I believe that arguing over theology of this sort would have hindered my search for Christ. To see, hear or read about Christians almost coming to blows over the definition of the Godhead would have made me wonder where Jesus was in all of this.

I thank God that He saw fit to lead me to where I was supposed to be at the time. It was a long time after baptism before I understood the importance of why God led me to a UPC church for my baptism.

However, it was the arrogance, shoddy treatment and judgmental attitudes of the people in the UPC churches I attended that made me question if Christ had any disciples in His church there.

It is my humble opinion that this thread was not started out of concern for the lost trinitarian. This thread has the feel of one who just wanted to stir the pot and liven things up on this site. He succeeded in his little quest.

You just wanted to see the fur fly didn't ya Epley?

Is it possible Areyouready, in your mind, to hold true to the three-step salvation doctrine strongly and definitively without being accused of being arrogant or hating trinitarians?

Is it possible to say this how I see the scriptures and I hold to what I believe the scriptures teach and not be accused of hate or divisiveness?

I think it gets to the point where some people don't care, because DESPITE of what is done and what is said those of us who hold to Apostolic Doctrine are ostracized as arrogant, heady, legalists, and people full of hatred. However isn't that the same kind of intolerant speech thrown at us by secularists who try to attack ALL Christians for being arrogant?

Why? Because the majority of Christians believe that salvation is through CHRIST alone and that without him one is lost. I stand on THAT as firmly as I stand on Acts 2:38 being the ultimate plan of salvation for this dispensation and I don't falter or wave from that. I'm sorry that's what I preach. That's what I teach. That's what I believe. I will bid kind words to a trinitarian, I will pray with trinitarians, I have worshiped with trinitarians, but I hold this standard that if they are not baptized by immersion in the Name of Jesus there is no remission of sin and they ultimately cannot enter the kingdom. I'm sorry if that offends you, but I'm sure your faith offends someone else and I can't as much as you can't make apologies for the word of God.

As much as I'd love for all of us to go to Heaven, I don't believe this to be so.

Quite frankly I don't care if I'm called a legalist, or accused of not "understanding the blood". At 16 I had seen my mother a backslidden COGIC musician, overdose on prescription medication, go into withdrawal on my bedroom floor, was raised up by an older brother who died when I was in tenth grade as a slain drug dealer... when I went down in the name of Jesus Christ my life was so effected it changed completely. I don't preach Jesus Name Doctrine because I woke up one morning and felt like hating trinitarians... this doctrine saved my life. You want trade stories there you go. I'm sorry for your experiences, but attacking the doctrine and it's merits based on those who you've have met that profess that doctrine, which is what happens a lot here is completely unfair.

I've never accused a trinitarian of worshiping three gods. I've never accused trinitarian pentecostals of having a "false Holy Ghost," I feel those arguments are faulty, dogmatic, and unnecessary. BUT I hold firm to salvation's plan being Acts 2:38. But just like our side has it's dogmatic and arrogant people, I feel as though many leave and become exactly what they left the church because of. Arrogant Pentecostals are no longer the "personal experience" of the individual, their the overall rule for the entire faith and those who they don't consider "arrogant" are made out to be the exception. I don't believe that's fair at all. But that brings me back to my question: is it possible in your mind to be a three stepper, and NOT be arrogant or high minded? Because if the answer is truly no or not for the most part there's no point in debating doctrine openly and fairly because people's emotions won't allow them to see truth anyway. Just my thoughts.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Is it possible Areyouready, in your mind, to hold true to the three-step salvation doctrine strongly and definitively without being accused of being arrogant or hating trinitarians?

Is it possible to say this how I see the scriptures and I hold to what I believe the scriptures teach and not be accused of hate or divisiveness?

I think it gets to the point where some people don't care, because DESPITE of what is done and what is said those of us who hold to Apostolic Doctrine are ostracized as arrogant, heady, legalists, and people full of hatred. However isn't that the same kind of intolerant speech thrown at us by secularists who try to attack ALL Christians for being arrogant?

Why? Because the majority of Christians believe that salvation is through CHRIST alone and that without him one is lost. I stand on THAT as firmly as I stand on Acts 2:38 being the ultimate plan of salvation for this dispensation and I don't falter or wave from that. I'm sorry that's what I preach. That's what I teach. That's what I believe. I will bid kind words to a trinitarian, I will pray with trinitarians, I have worshiped with trinitarians, but I hold this standard that if they are not baptized by immersion in the Name of Jesus there is no remission of sin and they ultimately cannot enter the kingdom. I'm sorry if that offends you, but I'm sure your faith offends someone else and I can't as much as you can't make apologies for the word of God.

As much as I'd love for all of us to go to Heaven, I don't believe this to be so.

Quite frankly I don't care if I'm called a legalist, or accused of not "understanding the blood". At 16 I had seen my mother a backslidden COGIC musician, overdose on prescription medication, go into withdrawal on my bedroom floor, was raised up by an older brother who died when I was in tenth grade as a slain drug dealer... when I went down in the name of Jesus Christ my life was so effected it changed completely. I don't preach Jesus Name Doctrine because I woke up one morning and felt like hating trinitarians... this doctrine saved my life. You want trade stories there you go. I'm sorry for your experiences, but attacking the doctrine and it's merits based on those who you've have met that profess that doctrine, which is what happens a lot here is completely unfair.

I've never accused a trinitarian of worshiping three gods. I've never accused trinitarian pentecostals of having a "false Holy Ghost," I feel those arguments are faulty, dogmatic, and unnecessary. BUT I hold firm to salvation's plan being Acts 2:38. But just like our side has it's dogmatic and arrogant people, I feel as though many leave and become exactly what they left the church because of. Arrogant Pentecostals are no longer the "personal experience" of the individual, their the overall rule for the entire faith and those who they don't consider "arrogant" are made out to be the exception. I don't believe that's fair at all. But that brings me back to my question: is it possible in your mind to be a three stepper, and NOT be arrogant or high minded? Because if the answer is truly no or not for the most part there's no point in debating doctrine openly and fairly because people's emotions won't allow them to see truth anyway. Just my thoughts.

Who accused YOU personally of having hate or causing divisiveness? Who posted that trialbyfire hates trinitarians and causes divisiveness between the brethren?


Trial, It is possible to hold true to being a three-stepper without being arrogant. However, many OP's do not have the wisdom of showing people a more excellent way.

Never heard of three stepper, two stepper, one stepper doctrines until I came to this forum. All I wanted was JESUS.

Never heard such vitriol about the subject until I came to this forum. All I wanted was JESUS.


One can adhere to the Oneness doctrine without being offensive about it. I read a lot of people telling others they will go to hell if they are not a cookie cutter Oneness Pentecostal like they are. If a woman does not get convicted by the standard OP dress code in some of those churches, she is going to hell. If she wears jewelry, or cuts hair, or wears makeup, she is judged to be heading for hell.

Or call a man a backslider because he likes to go see a movie now and then.

For one thing, none of you can place another person into hell or pluck them out of hell even if they are OP. Some of you forget that Christ is the righteous judge that opens the book of life to read off names contained therein. I think we will all be surprised who we will see in heaven. Christ writes the names in the book of life or Christ removes the names from the book of life. Not any human being, nor any preacher.

Jesse put up all his sons, except for one, to portray before Samuel to anoint King. But guess what? God didn't want any of them that others thought would be perfect for their King. God picked the very one to be King who was not thought about.

I acknowledge that there are many people who are not high-minded in their faith. I am addressing those who are.
And,
I would definitely say that if you are not guilty of accusing trinitarian people of false worship, why get your hackles up about it? The arrogance I am talking about concerns many more actions by OPs than them just blasting trinitarians, It has everything to do with them devouring one another inside their own ranks likewise. Sorry, but I've seen it in every church I've been to.

The arrogance I am talking about is the nit-picking at someone who maybe doesn't have the nicest clothes, the swankiest home, or maybe not even the most sparkling personality. The poor. (Yes, the poor is looked down upon in some OP churches)

The arrogance I am talking about is the cliques in the OP church system. I hear it all the time...my church don't have any cliques. But when you go to visit, there are this little group and that little group who will not allow you to join in.
The arrogance I am talking about is OP on Op attacks. It does happen. The arrogance I am talking about has nothing to do with OP doctrine, but rather the condition of the heart displayed towards others. Freezing others out of fellowship is christian like?

You are going to have so show me where I attacked OP doctrine since you accused me of that. All you will see is where I attacked the arrogance some of them display...not the OP doctrine itself.

One more thing, your faith or someone else's faith does NOT offend me. A proud spirit, a haughty or arrogant attitude about pushing their faith in your face in that they consider themselves saved but judges others who do not believe like them to be going to hell does offend me. Those people should be very careful because they are not our Savior to have the right to do that.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Who accused YOU personally of having hate or causing divisiveness? Who posted that trialbyfire hates trinitarians and causes divisiveness between the brethren?


Trial, It is possible to hold true to being a three-stepper without being arrogant. However, many OP's do not have the wisdom of showing people a more excellent way.

Never heard of three stepper, two stepper, one stepper doctrines until I came to this forum. All I wanted was JESUS.

Never heard such vitriol about the subject until I came to this forum. All I wanted was JESUS.


One can adhere to the Oneness doctrine without being offensive about it. I read a lot of people telling others they will go to hell if they are not a cookie cutter Oneness Pentecostal like they are. If a woman does not get convicted by the standard OP dress code in some of those churches, she is going to hell. If she wears jewelry, or cuts hair, or wears makeup, she is judged to be heading for hell.

Or call a man a backslider because he likes to go see a movie now and then.

For one thing, none of you can place another person into hell or pluck them out of hell even if they are OP. Some of you forget that Christ is the righteous judge that opens the book of life to read off names contained therein. I think we will all be surprised who we will see in heaven. Christ writes the names in the book of life or Christ removes the names from the book of life. Not any human being, nor any preacher.

Jesse put up all his sons, except for one, to portray before Samuel to anoint King. But guess what? God didn't want any of them that others thought would be perfect for their King. God picked the very one to be King who was not thought about.

I acknowledge that there are many people who are not high-minded in their faith. I am addressing those who are.
And,
I would definitely say that if you are not guilty of accusing trinitarian people of false worship, why get your hackles up about it? The arrogance I am talking about concerns many more actions by OPs than them just blasting trinitarians, It has everything to do with them devouring one another inside their own ranks likewise. Sorry, but I've seen it in every church I've been to.

The arrogance I am talking about is the nit-picking at someone who maybe doesn't have the nicest clothes, the swankiest home, or maybe not even the most sparkling personality. The poor. (Yes, the poor is looked down upon in some OP churches)

The arrogance I am talking about is the cliques in the OP church system. I hear it all the time...my church don't have any cliques. But when you go to visit, there are this little group and that little group who will not allow you to join in.
The arrogance I am talking about is OP on Op attacks. It does happen. The arrogance I am talking about has nothing to do with OP doctrine, but rather the condition of the heart displayed towards others. Freezing others out of fellowship is christian like?

You are going to have so show me where I attacked OP doctrine since you accused me of that. All you will see is where I attacked the arrogance some of them display...not the OP doctrine itself.

One more thing, your faith or someone else's faith does NOT offend me. A proud spirit, a haughty or arrogant attitude about pushing their faith in your face in that they consider themselves saved but judges others who do not believe like them to be going to hell does offend me. Those people should be very careful because they are not our Savior to have the right to do that.

The question was to see where you are not to accuse you. When I see comments like "OPs don't understand the blood" I wonder what people think about that. The fact is there are cliques amongst baptists, methodists, etc. There are control issues in all churches. I don't see how the issues you brought, though I'm not denying they exist are an OP problem.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

The question was to see where you are not to accuse you. When I see comments like "OPs don't understand the blood" I wonder what people think about that. The fact is there are cliques amongst baptists, methodists, etc. There are control issues in all churches. I don't see how the issues you brought, though I'm not denying they exist are an OP problem.

Well, first of all, I never said OPs don't understand the blood, although the more I read here, the more I am beginning to believe that statement.

The control issues and other things...well it was an OP problem for me...especially since that is the first church system I seriously felt was truly of God at that time. Note that I did not consider getting baptized in any other church.

Sigh....I guess I expected more out of the OP system than I would have out of the Methodist, Baptist or Catholic system. So...are you saying that OPs are not any different from other flavors of the Christian church in regards to control issues and lack of love towards brothers and sisters? I should not have expected genuine love and respect from OPs?