How Much Does Your 'church' Pay?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Nothing wrong with it as long as the congregation supports it.

So, no limits, as long as the majority of the membership votes in "favor" or would a hand picked board suffice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

[deacon blues]

Most pastors have to work a second job to make ends meet. I've worked side jobs throughout my ministry because my pay wasn't sufficient to provide for my family. Many pastors are never able to become a full time pastor. There have been more orphanages, drug rehab centers, homeless shelters, missionaries, hospitals, clinics, halfway houses, soup kitchens, clothes closets, disaster relief, church buildings, colleges, schools, utility help, food pantries, nursing homes, youth camps, preschools, pro life ministry, etc that have come to fruition through the so-called Romanist system than were ever birthed out of folks meeting in a living room in opposition to traditional worship facilities and paid ministers.

Question Seekerman (I think I already know the answer): do these house churches that you are familiar with teach/preach/practice tithing?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

We had a pastor who used that line to pay himself exactly double that which was the average pay for the city (or state, or nation?) we lived in -can't remember which one it was. Although in some ways I admired him for not keeping it a secret. He didn't shout it from the platform but the books were open so many knew.

I can't imagine my pastor even thinking or suggesting this, let alone actually implementing such a plan. So it was the pastor's idea? Not the congregation or board?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I can't imagine my pastor even thinking or suggesting this, let alone actually implementing such a plan. So it was the pastor's idea? Not the congregation or board?

Well, I was 14-19 during my stint there so I have no idea of any specifics of internal politics going on at the time (although I had a general sense of it). But he DID mention this "double honor" more than once from the pulpit, no doubt answering critics who asked about it in private. He was a good one for responding to people in a way where everyone could hear. He was also the type who always referred to himself in the 3rd person when talking and issuing commands, errrr I mean, his "opinion" which according to other teaching was a defacto command since "The Pastor" said it.

[Hoovie]

If we are talking averages... I believe the "average" pastor likely gives more $$ to the church than he receives from the same.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

So, no limits, as long as the majority of the membership votes in "favor" or would a hand picked board suffice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

Those guys are disgusting.

They are the exception. I live in a house provided by the church, I don't own one. I drive a 2001 Nissan Altima with 200k miles. My wife last year got a 2010 Honda Civic after driving a 1999 GMC Yukon for 9 years. It had 185k miles it when she traded it in. The last suit I bought was at least 5 years ago. I haven't bought a new necktie probably as long. We shop at Marshalls, TJ Maxx for clothes unless we find clearance items at the dept stores or mall. My wife is a flight attendant to help make ends meet. She also cleans a house once a week. We went on vacation last summer. We went to Ohio and visited relatives. I went to a conference here last year and paid $50 for registration. I didn't have to buy a new wardrobe to attend it. I help with the yard work here. When we have dinners/banquets I help fold the tables and stack the chairs and vacuum the floors. Last week I worked 49 hours for the church. The week before I worked 60 hours. We have two school aged children. They play soccer, take piano lessons, sing in school choir, have homework have to go to doctor.

I am Joe Average Preacher. I live like most preachers do, not like the prima donnas and divas. I gave back to our church about 20% of our income. We work hard, we serve, we sacrifice, we agonize with people as they fail and suffer, we disciple, we teach, we help, we encourage, we discipline, we correct. We endure petty criticisms from petty armchair quarterbacks and we are blessed with people who are pure gold.

Most of us live average lives like most people in our churches. Just trying to have a good marriage, raise decent kids, pay our bills, be successful at what we do. We don't feel entitled to any more than the average member of our church---but I sure don't feel we're entitled to any less.

So keep trapsing out the hot shots that are multimillionaires to try to prove that preachers are crooks and lazy and playboys and clueless but the truth is most preachers are just ordinary people and they don't see themselves as anything more.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Well, I was 14-19 during my stint there so I have no idea of any specifics of internal politics going on at the time (although I had a general sense of it). But he DID mention this "double honor" more than once from the pulpit, no doubt answering critics who asked about it in private. He was a good one for responding to people in a way where everyone could hear. He was also the type who always referred to himself in the 3rd person when talking and issuing commands, errrr I mean, his "opinion" which according to other teaching was a defacto command since "The Pastor" said it.

It's possible that he was just being defensive, but I agree his defense was in bad taste. It would have been better for a board member or secretary to make that defense. Talking in 3rd person is one of MissBrat's pet peeves.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

If we are talking averages... I believe the "average" pastor likely gives more $$ to the church than he receives from the same.

I know that was true for my parents. They pretty much ruined their own finances trying to support their church. Their church was an old system where the pastor got all of the tithes (which was only between 35-40K in the best years; normally it was between 18-25K), but my Dad routinely poured that money back into the church accounts to pay bills and make improvements. I know that because I'm the one who balanced their books when they finally retired. It was ridiculous. And believe it or not, there were people in that church who thought my parents were paid too much.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's possible that he was just being defensive, but I agree his defense was in bad taste. It would have been better for a board member or secretary to make that defense. Talking in 3rd person is one of MissBrat's pet peeves.



I know that was true for my parents. They pretty much ruined their own finances trying to support their church. Their church was an old system where the pastor got all of the tithes (which was only between 35-40K in the best years; normally it was between 18-25K), but my Dad routinely poured that money back into the church accounts to pay bills and make improvements. I know that because I'm the one who balanced their books when they finally retired. It was ridiculous. And believe it or not, there were people in that church who thought my parents were paid too much.

MissB,

My parents did the same thing. It's sad to think most people think pastors are paid too much. Some are...but there are plenty that sacrifice everything.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's possible that he was just being defensive, but I agree his defense was in bad taste. It would have been better for a board member or secretary to make that defense. Talking in 3rd person is one of MissBrat's pet peeves.



I know that was true for my parents. They pretty much ruined their own finances trying to support their church. Their church was an old system where the pastor got all of the tithes (which was only between 35-40K in the best years; normally it was between 18-25K), but my Dad routinely poured that money back into the church accounts to pay bills and make improvements. I know that because I'm the one who balanced their books when they finally retired. It was ridiculous. And believe it or not, there were people in that church who thought my parents were paid too much.

I understand. I believe a certain level of transparency is needed to protect those who work in the ministry as much as anything. It is not just about protecting the church from greedy pastors... if there are any.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Those guys are disgusting.

They are the exception. I live in a house provided by the church, I don't own one. I drive a 2001 Nissan Altima with 200k miles. My wife last year got a 2010 Honda Civic after driving a 1999 GMC Yukon for 9 years. It had 185k miles it when she traded it in. The last suit I bought was atbleast 5 years ago. I haven't bought a new necktie probably as long. We shop at Marshalls, TJ Maxx for clothes unless we find clearance items at the dept stores or mall. My wife is a flight attendant to help make ends meet. She also cleans a house once a week. We went on vacation last summer. We went to Ohio and visited relatives. I went to a conference here last year and paid $50 for registration. I didn't have to buy a new wardrobe to attend it. I help with the yard work here. When we have dinners/banquets I help fold the tables and stack the chairs and vacuum the floors. Last week I worked 49 hours for the church. The week before I worked 60 hours. We have two school aged children. They play soccer, take piano lessons, sing in school choir, have homework have to gomto doctor.

I am Joe Average Preacher. I live like most preachers do, not like the prima donnas and divas. I gave back to our church about 20% of our income. We work hard, we serve, we sacrifice, we agonize with people as they fail and suffer, we disciple, we teach, we help, we encourage, we discipline, we correct. We endure petty criticisms from petty armchair quarterbacks and we are blessed with peoe who are pure gold.

Most of live average lives like most people in our churches. Just trying to have ahold marriage, raise decent kids, pay our bills, be successful at what we do. We don't feel entitled to any more than the average member of our church---but I sure don't feel we're entitled to any less.

So keep trapsing out the hot shots that are multimillionaires to try to prove that preachers are crooks and lazy and playboys and clueless but the truth is most preachers are just ordinary people and they don't see themselves as anything more.

Uh... I was not doing that at all. Just saying a certain level of accountability and transparency is a good thing for all.

Regarding the video - I agree with you "Those guys are disgusting".