Cutting Back On 'Church' Services

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

If they don't, coming to church every single day is not going to save them.

We were not talking salvation.

You said "stronger personal relationship with God"

And now suddenly we went from two Sunday services to everyday?

Where did that come from?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by scotty

We were not talking salvation.

You said "stronger personal relationship with God"

And now suddenly we went from two Sunday services to everyday?

Where did that come from?

Let me see if I can explain it.

FJ said that we need more church not less.

I asked why? People should have a personal relationship with God.

You asked - but do they?

I said if they don't, even going to church every day won't save them.

Make sense?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ok, but I'm keeping my "The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." sticker. I lover irritating all the Marxist teachers here.

lol...well that's not "theology"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by followingJesus

I had thought of that and forgot to say it.

We need more church in this evil day not less.

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Why? Do people not have a strong enough personal relationship with God?

What does one have to do with the other?

If you have a strong personal relationship with Jesus why WOULDN'T you want more church?

Is the need us? Or is it the hungry and the thirsty that are looking for God or maybe those that are weak in their "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ and need a lift.

Why do we see "church" always about what WE can get out of it and not rather what we can GIVE to our fellow brothers and sisters or to a sinner that might be visiting?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What does one have to do with the other?

If you have a strong personal relationship with Jesus why WOULDN'T you want more church?

Is the need us? Or is it the hungry and the thirsty that are looking for God or maybe those that are weak in their "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ and need a lift.

Why do we see "church" always about what WE can get out of it and not rather what we can GIVE to our fellow brothers and sisters or to a sinner that might be visiting?

Really good question, Prax........when someone says "I need to go to church more" it indicates to me that they are going for their own benefit. Nothing wrong with that, but you and I both know that the percentage of sinners IN the church is FAR less than the percentage outside of it.

How much emphasis is placed on going out into the world and reaching the lost?

Go thru the Bible and tell me how many times you find Jesus going to church. And when he did, he preached at the hypocrites, for the most part.

The majority of his time was spent walking thru the cities and villages, healing the sick, raising the dead, forgiving the sinner......

In our society, church has for the most part become a social experience, and we see the same faces, hear the same songs, hear the same messages preached, and we leave saying "Wow, that was awesome, I feel so much better". And, then we do it all again. And again.

So, when someone says "I need to go to church more" it just makes me wonder if they need the group support to keep reminding themselves that they can "hold out until Jesus comes".

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

lol...well that's not "theology"

According to them it is.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Let me see if I can explain it.

FJ said that we need more church not less.

I asked why? People should have a personal relationship with God.

You asked - but do they?

I said if they don't, even going to church every day won't save them.

Make sense?

Perfect sense.

What I was eventually getting at is partially what Prax said.

We should want more church.

Assuming the church you go to is edifying.

But my other point is this, and no I don't have statistics.

But in today's society, its really hard to spend quality time with God at home.

Now I know everyone is going to hoop and hollar about thier prayer closet.

I don't care.

You can't tell me that there are not distractions.

I love going to church because it actually is REST for me.

It is rest in the Spirit. I don't feel burdened or tired from going to church.

I allows me to focus my attention on Him and clear my mind of daily life in this world.

That, results in a stronger relationship with God.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by scotty

Perfect sense.

What I was eventually getting at is partially what Prax said.

We should want more church.

Assuming the church you go to is edifying.

But my other point is this, and no I don't have statistics.

But in today's society, its really hard to spend quality time with God at home.

Now I know everyone is going to hoop and hollar about thier prayer closet.

I don't care.

You can't tell me that there are not distractions.

I love going to church because it actually is REST for me.

It is rest in the Spirit. I don't feel burdened or tired from going to church.

I allows me to focus my attention on Him and clear my mind of daily life in this world.

That, results in a stronger relationship with God.

Makes sense, and in that context, I agree.

Here's my concern - I know people who guage their spirituality by how much church they attend. Not by the souls they win, or the lives they touch.

Many people consider church attendance a metric for salvation. And, many consider church attendance a substitute for fulfilling the Great Commission.

How many people get saved, and then never win a soul to the Lord? They abide by the standards, they never miss a service, they pay their tithes, and say "Well, i've done what I needed to do, I'll just wait for the Lord to come and take me home!"

My earlier point stands - you will find that Jesus did WAY more good work outside the walls of the church than inside them.

If we really want to be like Jesus, we will spend much more time living our lives and exhibiting the love of Christ outside the church rather than inside it.

I remember a passage of scripture where Jesus did go to church, and started preaching under the anointing, and a man with the "unclean spirit of a devil" stood up, and you know what he said? "LEAVE US ALONE".

I fear that if we're not careful, we can fall into that trap.

I honestly don't think Satan cares how much we go to church and congratulate each other, sing songs to each other, preach sermons to each other......but he gets REALLY nervous when Christian go into the world and start doing that stuff!

I know, I know...maybe two separate subjects, but from the viewpoint of a former pastor, it's a sore subject with me.

WAYYY too much "OK, I'm here, now feed me..sing my favorite songs, tell me I'm doing ok".

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Really good question, Prax........when someone says "I need to go to church more" it indicates to me that they are going for their own benefit. Nothing wrong with that, but you and I both know that the percentage of sinners IN the church is FAR less than the percentage outside of it.

That's like saying the percentage of Laker fans at a home game is more than those at an away game...duh.

But the fact remains, at least at my church, we constantly have vistors coming.

"Church" never was just about "the church". It was common and expected

They had "visitors" on the day of Pentecost when the church was gathered in the upper room

Paul speaks about visitors
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

How much emphasis is placed on going out into the world and reaching the lost?

Obviously a lot or otherwise how did they get invited to a church meeting?

Go thru the Bible and tell me how many times you find Jesus going to church. And when he did, he preached at the hypocrites, for the most part.

Mat 12:9 He went on from there and entered their synagogue.

Mat 13:54 and coming to his hometown he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Mar 1:23 And immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out,

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read.
Luk 4:17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,

The majority of his time was spent walking thru the cities and villages, healing the sick, raising the dead, forgiving the sinner......

See above....

In our society, church has for the most part become a social experience, and we see the same faces, hear the same songs, hear the same messages preached, and we leave saying "Wow, that was awesome, I feel so much better". And, then we do it all again. And again.

I LOVE going to church meetings. Where do you guys go to church?

So, when someone says "I need to go to church more" it just makes me wonder if they need the group support to keep reminding themselves that they can "hold out until Jesus comes".

Maybe the person that needs more church is hurting? Will your church be there for him or her? Will you?

When I hear "I need more church" I think "I want to help" not "Oh Gosh, can't I just stay home? Shouldn't you already have a strong relationship with Jesus by now?"

Jas 5:13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
Jas 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.

Gathering together is for the purpose of encouraging each other
Heb 10:25 not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near.

That should be our motivation for going when it's not us that has a need but someone else

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's like saying the percentage of Laker fans at a home game is more than those at an away game...duh.

But the fact remains, at least at my church, we constantly have vistors coming.

"Church" never was just about "the church". It was common and expected

They had "visitors" on the day of Pentecost when the church was gathered in the upper room

Paul speaks about visitors
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?


Obviously a lot or otherwise how did they get invited to a church meeting?



Mat 12:9 He went on from there and entered their synagogue.

Mat 13:54 and coming to his hometown he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Mar 1:23 And immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out,

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read.
Luk 4:17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,


See above....


I LOVE going to church meetings. Where do you guys go to church?


Maybe the person that needs more church is hurting? Will your church be there for him or her? Will you?

When I hear "I need more church" I think "I want to help" not "Oh Gosh, can't I just stay home? Shouldn't you already have a strong relationship with Jesus by now?"

Jas 5:13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
Jas 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.

Gathering together is for the purpose of encouraging each other
Heb 10:25 not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near.

That should be our motivation for going when it's not us that has a need but someone else

I appreciate the condescension, not above engaging in it myself sometimes.....but, I stand by my point.....church these days has become about pleasing the attendee, not reaching sinners.......at least in my experience.

As a former pastor, I got real tired of hearing some of the old timers complain about the new music, the temperature, the volume, blah blah blah.....we use nomenclature familiar to the saint and not the sinner.....we do things that saints are comfortable with, not necessarily the sinner.......and in a previous post, I made the observation that in a very unscientific study (polled the congregation I used to pastor) a VAST majority of saints had never won another soul to the Lord.

So, whereas I don't have a problem going to church, I DO have a problem when saints only want to do that, and not fulfill the Great Commission.