Something interesting about gays.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Luke

Why yes I do thank you for asking

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ephsians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

(read and see the completion of the prayer from verse 24 answered)

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

(read where the problem lies them read the solution)

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


There are many more but that should suffice for now.

It suffices to prove that God will never remove our carnal nature, but He will give us strength to overcome it.

Paul said (even after salvation) that in ME dwelleth no good thing, and that even he still had desires that were contrary to the spirit, but he was able to resist those temptations, because of the power of the spirit which dwelled in him.

Let me ask this - the Bible says that Jesus was tempted in all points like as we, YET without sin......if Jesus didn't have carnal desires, how could He be tempted?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

It suffices to prove that God will never remove our carnal nature, but He will give us strength to overcome it.

Paul said (even after salvation) that in ME dwelleth no good thing, and that even he still had desires that were contrary to the spirit, but he was able to resist those temptations, because of the power of the spirit which dwelled in him.

Let me ask this - the Bible says that Jesus was tempted in all points like as we, YET without sin......if Jesus didn't have carnal desires, how could He be tempted?

Let me point out what you obviously did not see when you read the scriptures listed:

Romans 6:6 that the body of sin might be destroyed

Romans 8:2 hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ephesians 4:22 put off concerning the former conversation the old man

Ezekiel 36:26 and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh

Yep I think your right none of those scriptures even hint at getting rid of the carnal nature.


Now as to weather or not Jesus had carnal desires Jesus Himself gives us the answer:
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

If Jesus was born with a carnal nature then He was born a sinner just like you and me. But as He himself said "for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me" and as Paul said "who knew no sin"! Also it should be noted that when God created Adam in the garden God did not creat Him with a sinful nature. This can be clearly seen in that God said:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

(God never calls evil good)

Notice that like Adam was made without sin Paul calls Jesus "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit".

Lastly one other scripture to help answer your question:

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The previous scriptures speaking of the devil before he fell show that he also like adam was created without sin/sinful desirers/carnal nature but yet he sinned.

So in answer to you question no Jesus did not have any sinful desirers and yet could still be tempted because just as Adam and the angels were created without a carnal nature and they still sinned so Jesus was born without a sinful nature and could be tempted and not sin.

A carnal nature is not required to be tempted it just pulls you to sin.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Luke

Let me point out what you obviously did not see when you read the scriptures listed:

Romans 6:6 that the body of sin might be destroyed

Romans 8:2 hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ephesians 4:22 put off concerning the former conversation the old man

Ezekiel 36:26 and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh

Yep I think your right none of those scriptures even hint at getting rid of the carnal nature.


Now as to weather or not Jesus had carnal desires Jesus Himself gives us the answer:
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

If Jesus was born with a carnal nature then He was born a sinner just like you and me. But as He himself said "for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me" and as Paul said "who knew no sin"! Also it should be noted that when God created Adam in the garden God did not creat Him with a sinful nature. This can be clearly seen in that God said:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

(God never calls evil good)

Notice that like Adam was made without sin Paul calls Jesus "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit".

Lastly one other scripture to help answer your question:

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The previous scriptures speaking of the devil before he fell show that he also like adam was created without sin/sinful desirers/carnal nature but yet he sinned.

So in answer to you question no Jesus did not have any sinful desirers and yet could still be tempted because just as Adam and the angels were created without a carnal nature and they still sinned so Jesus was born without a sinful nature and could be tempted and not sin.

A carnal nature is not required to be tempted it just pulls you to sin.

Wow, I'm confused......so, if it was impossible for me to be tempted with sin, because I didn't have a carnal nature, how could I still be tempted? If I love chocolate, but make a conscious effort to abstain, that's resisting temptation.

If I HATE chocolate, but still resist - how is that in any way similar? I'm not tempted, I have no desire for it.

And, there is something here that YOU are obviously missing:


Romans 7
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul CLEARLY describes a struggle between his flesh (carnal nature) and his mind (divine influence).

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Wow, I'm confused......so, if it was impossible for me to be tempted with sin, because I didn't have a carnal nature, how could I still be tempted? If I love chocolate, but make a conscious effort to abstain, that's resisting temptation.

Wow you obviously did not read my three final statements before you posted:

The previous scriptures speaking of the devil before he fell show that he also like adam was created without sin/sinful desirers/carnal nature but yet he sinned.

So in answer to you question no Jesus did not have any sinful desirers and yet could still be tempted because just as Adam and the angels were created without a carnal nature and they still sinned so Jesus was born without a sinful nature and could be tempted and not sin.

A carnal nature is not required to be tempted it just pulls you to sin.

As to your reference to Romans 7 I did deal with that by showing how Paul says in Romans 8 that Jesus set Him free from that:

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Please read my entire post before responding.