The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segraves

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i believe everyone will be judged individually by the standard of christ whether muslim, buddhist, christian or apostolic. when someone is saved, whether at faith, baptism or tongues is inconsequential.

Just based on the Words of Christ He tells me that they are not required for His Salvation plan.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Just based on the Words of Christ He tells me that they are not required for His Salvation plan.

i don't understand what you said. who or what is they that are not required?

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i don't understand what you said. who or what is they that are not required?

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i believe everyone will be judged individually by the standard of christ whether muslim, buddhist, christian or apostolic. when someone is saved, whether at faith, baptism or tongues is inconsequential.

Baptism or tongues.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Baptism or tongues.

ok got you. but what about people who have been raised muslim and buddhist etc. who live ethical lives as taught by jesus but within their own tradition? do you think god will condemn them with hellfire for being ethical but not adherents to the christian religion of christ as god but christ as prophet?

[LUKE2447]

What I find is amazing is how Christianity takes words like justification which can be used and be seen in several ways and packages it only one way. The word salvation and how people use it is another. Segraves has some good points but misses and fails at what Gen 15 is saying and what Paul and James both say about it. He falls in line with the same failure as many protestants on justification and the word believed.


People use "justification" to much as a acquittal of sin. While in part it can have a view in relation to a pardon etc... It does not mean it is salvation directly but how God judges and considers ones position good or bad. A person can be justified in many things but also not in a few.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

ok got you. but what about people who have been raised muslim and buddhist etc. who live ethical lives as taught by jesus but within their own tradition? do you think god will condemn them with hellfire for being ethical but not adherents to the christian religion of christ as god but christ as prophet?

14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

We have no authority to offer another way. Our job as a Christian in whatever nation we may be in is to offer salvation through Christ.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

We have no authority to offer another way. Our job as a Christian in whatever nation we may be in is to offer salvation through Christ.

what does "through me" mean? could it mean through the ethical standards I teach? what is so different between an ethical pagan and an ethical believer in jesus?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Just based on the Words of Christ He tells me that they are not required for His Salvation plan.

Thats funny. He told his own Apostles exactly the opposite!

He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation. 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats funny. He told his own Apostles exactly the opposite!

He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation. 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who disbelieves will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16

Michael that is one of those parlor tricks. The one who disbelieves will be condemned not the one unbaptized. The action is in the belief that drives being Baptized in faith.

For the record I have never met a Oneness or Trinitarian new believer that was not eager to get Baptized.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Michael that is one of those parlor tricks. The one who disbelieves will be condemned not the one unbaptized. The action is in the belief that drives being Baptized in faith.

For the record I have never met a Oneness or Trinitarian new believer that was not eager to get Baptized.

He that believes AND is baptized shall............what?

Maybe you have not. Then why are there multitudes of people out there who have not been baptized at all in the Protestant Evangelical groups?

Why do their Churches not baptize the same hour of the night as did Apostle Paul?

Acts 16:33

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Dont you think he did that because he thought it was essential and they dont because they feel it is not?