To tithe or not to tithe?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

In 2 Pet 2, the Apostle Peter called those wicked persons who feasted among the children of the Lord "cursed" (vs. 14). They were cursed because they had "forsaken the right way" (vs. 15). So, we see even in the NT, disobedience incurs the curse of God.

Ummm..those guys Peter was talking about DEPARTED from walking in Christ. They were NO LONGER in Christ.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

A person cannot be UNDER the curse of God if they're in Christ. That's the whole point of the cross.

Originally Posted by DaveC519

You would bring it to the place where you regularly worship. Your pastor, like the Apostle Paul, may choose not to exercise his right to ministerial support, but it remains his right.

Wait, let me get this straight, if my Pastor has said UNEQUIVOCALLY that he will not receive tithes, which means I do not need to bring tithes to my place of worship. So I am not cursed in that case.

But if the Pastor decides to receive tithes, and I do not bring it, I am cursed.

Cool, the solution is very simple to me: "Go to a church where the pastor does not receive tithes...and you won't be cursed."

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Ummm..those guys Peter was talking about DEPARTED from walking in Christ. They were NO LONGER in Christ.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

A person cannot be UNDER the curse of God if they're in Christ. That's the whole point of the cross.




Wait, let me get this straight, if my Pastor has said UNEQUIVOCALLY that he will not receive tithes, which means I do not need to bring tithes to my place of worship. So I am not cursed in that case.

But if the Pastor decides to receive tithes, and I do not bring it, I am cursed.

Cool, the solution is very simple to me: "Go to a church where the pastor does not receive tithes...and you won't be cursed."

You ain't right.......

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Cindy

You ain't right.......

...

[TGBTG]

What is funny is Paul was not even appealing to tithes in 1 Cor 9. He was appealing to Levitical duties that were performed in the temple.

1 Cor 9 (KJV)
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1 Cor 9 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?

Leviticus 2
1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord:
3 And the remnant of the meat offering shall be Aaron's and his sons': it is a thing most holy of the offerings of the Lord made by fire.

The levites were to eat whatever was left of the sacrifices offered in the temple. And Paul was saying by the Lord's command "Support those that preach the gospel"

It does not even have to be money. Yes, money is probably one of the easiest ways to support, but it does not have to be money.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

What is funny is Paul was not even appealing to tithes in 1 Cor 9. He was appealing to Levitical duties that were performed in the temple.

1 Cor 9 (KJV)
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1 Cor 9 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?

Leviticus 2
1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord:
3 And the remnant of the meat offering shall be Aaron's and his sons': it is a thing most holy of the offerings of the Lord made by fire.

The levites were to eat whatever was left of the sacrifices offered in the temple. And Paul was saying by the Lord's command "Support those that preach the gospel"

It does not even have to be money. Yes, money is probably one of the easiest ways to support, but it does not have to be money.

The basis or underlying principle of the Levitical system was the tithe. Paul was not telling the church to give their ministers the Levitical tithe, because the Levitical tithe went to the Levitical priesthood. What he did say was "so also", meaning "even so" or "in like manner".

And you're correct: a tithe does not have to be money. It is based on however one is increased. Every summer my wife grows a garden, and when she harvests it she literally pays a tenth of the harvest as the tithe. To the Galatians, Paul said those who are taught in the Word should "communicate" to the teacher "in all good things" (Gal 6:6). The writer of Hebrews, in the same context of submitting to church leadership, also speaks of "communicating" (Heb 13:16-17). So, no, it doesn't have to be limited to money.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

The basis or underlying principle of the Levitical system was the tithe. Paul was not telling the church to give their ministers the Levitical tithe, because the Levitical tithe went to the Levitical priesthood. What he did say was "so also", meaning "even so" or "in like manner".

What I am saying is that tithe was different from the food which the Levites got from the temple. And Paul was appealing to the food from the temple not the tithes.

Also, the tithing principle you are advocating EXCLUDES anyone besides the Pastor.

However, Paul did not say only Pastors should be supported. He said the Lord ordained that THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL should live off the gospel.

So that would include missionaries too. Therefore, a person can give their "tithe" to missionaries. But I don't see you advocating for that.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

What I am saying is that tithe was different from the food which the Levites got from the temple. And Paul was appealing to the food from the temple not the tithes.

Also, the tithing principle you are advocating EXCLUDES anyone besides the Pastor.

However, Paul did not say only Pastors should be supported. He said the Lord ordained that THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL should live off the gospel.

So that would include missionaries too. Therefore, a person can give their "tithe" to missionaries. But I don't see you advocating for that.

That's because we haven't gotten that far yet!

Once the principle of the tithe is acknowledged to exist under the New Covenant, THEN we can begin to discuss the structure of the ministry, and yes, "they" (not just pastors) who preach the gospel are due support. But the support comes THROUGH the local church.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Ummm..those guys Peter was talking about DEPARTED from walking in Christ. They were NO LONGER in Christ.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

A person cannot be UNDER the curse of God if they're in Christ. That's the whole point of the cross.

This gets into the whole discussion of the difference between backsliding and falling away, which is an interesting discussion, but one which probably would require its own thread. If you'd like to start a thread on this, I'd be happy to participate.

In short, the purpose of the "curse" is to bring God's people back to him. It serves as a hedge, so to speak, but obviously we can choose to be willfully disobedient to God's commandments and move into an area where the curse applies.

Wait, let me get this straight, if my Pastor has said UNEQUIVOCALLY that he will not receive tithes, which means I do not need to bring tithes to my place of worship. So I am not cursed in that case.

But if the Pastor decides to receive tithes, and I do not bring it, I am cursed.

Cool, the solution is very simple to me: "Go to a church where the pastor does not receive tithes...and you won't be cursed."

Your pastor receiving the tithe, and you bringing it into the church, are two separate things. You bring it in obedience to God's command; your pastor either uses it to support himself or uses it for SOME OTHER GODLY PURPOSE, for as a steward of God's resources (1Cor 4:2), he will be judged how he uses it.