Who Knows Michelle Shocked?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Right, and sodomy isn't illegal in this country and homosexuals (and some straight couples) already practice that. Objecting to gay marriage doesn't stop that from happening.

The real problem here is that the church and state have gotten tangled up on the marriage issue. Religious covenants of marriage should be the domain of the church; legal unions and household sharing should be a government issue, IMO.

I agree, The whole marriage debate is framed incorrectly in order to cause division.

Marriage is not a legal contract, it is a natural construct ordained by the Author of reality. We CANNOT redefine it. The problem is that in a corporatist/socialist state, marriage is a legal contract created by the state. This should not be. Marriage is defined by God and enacted by the church, not the state. Eliminate the income tax, social(ist) benefits, etc. and the state would have no business with marriage.

[SiblingRevelry]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree, The whole marriage debate is framed incorrectly in order to cause division.

Marriage is not a legal contract, it is a natural construct ordained by the Author of reality. We CANNOT redefine it. The problem is that in a corporatist/socialist state, marriage is a legal contract created by the state. This should not be. Marriage is defined by God and enacted by the church, not the state. Eliminate the income tax, social(ist) benefits, etc. and the state would have no business with marriage.

In the United States, marriage is a legal contract under our system of government. In the past, good religious people have stopped slaves (as property) and interracial couple from marrying. (Do I have to quote the appropriate passage from Loving v. Virginia to show you how the racist judge paraphrased his understanding of the Bible to defend his anti-miscegenation views?) There are plenty of people in this land who get married because of the legal and social benefits and they are NOT DOING IT because your religious belief says so. They should NOT be forced to adhere to your religious beliefs to get married. Those same religious beliefs, I have to tiresomely remind you, kept slaves and people of different races from marrying under the law.

I have no dog in this hunt as I'm not married and don't have any intention of getting married, nor do I get all the goodies from being married. However, my parents' California marriage was illegal in the South until 1967 and I am just a tiny bit sensitive to the fact that Good Christian People have had (and some still do have) a problem with interracial marriage. I'm seeing a tiresome repeat of the discussions that took place when I was a kid. It's too bad we didn't have an Internet then so we could pull up all the sermonizing then about race-mixing and see how it sounds now.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

In the United States, marriage is a legal contract under our system of government. In the past, good religious people have stopped slaves (as property) and interracial couple from marrying. (Do I have to quote the appropriate passage from Loving v. Virginia to show you how the racist judge paraphrased his understanding of the Bible to defend his anti-miscegenation views?) There are plenty of people in this land who get married because of the legal and social benefits and they are NOT DOING IT because your religious belief says so. They should NOT be forced to adhere to your religious beliefs to get married. Those same religious beliefs, I have to tiresomely remind you, kept slaves and people of different races from marrying under the law.

I have no dog in this hunt as I'm not married and don't have any intention of getting married, nor do I get all the goodies from being married. However, my parents' California marriage was illegal in the South until 1967 and I am just a tiny bit sensitive to the fact that Good Christian People have had (and some still do have) a problem with interracial marriage. I'm seeing a tiresome repeat of the discussions that took place when I was a kid. It's too bad we didn't have an Internet then so we could pull up all the sermonizing then about race-mixing and see how it sounds now.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

In the United States, marriage is a legal contract under our system of government. In the past, good religious people have stopped slaves (as property) and interracial couple from marrying. (Do I have to quote the appropriate passage from Loving v. Virginia to show you how the racist judge paraphrased his understanding of the Bible to defend his anti-miscegenation views?) There are plenty of people in this land who get married because of the legal and social benefits and they are NOT DOING IT because your religious belief says so. They should NOT be forced to adhere to your religious beliefs to get married. Those same religious beliefs, I have to tiresomely remind you, kept slaves and people of different races from marrying under the law.

I have no dog in this hunt as I'm not married and don't have any intention of getting married, nor do I get all the goodies from being married. However, my parents' California marriage was illegal in the South until 1967 and I am just a tiny bit sensitive to the fact that Good Christian People have had (and some still do have) a problem with interracial marriage. I'm seeing a tiresome repeat of the discussions that took place when I was a kid. It's too bad we didn't have an Internet then so we could pull up all the sermonizing then about race-mixing and see how it sounds now.

It's too bad we didn't have the Internet when we colonized this country at the beginning. Samuel Adams would have loved talking to Ben Franklin in France instead of sailing over there.

Thank you for expressing your views here. I see where you are coming from. And yes, I would love to read the passage from Loving v. Virginia. I've never read it and would be interested in learning more history and looking closely at a mindset.

And, BTW, as I see you are sensitive, I hope you don't take that out on people for generations to come. My family has a plaque displayed in honor of our service to the Underground Railroad in San Antonio, Texas.