Where do the lost spend eternity? Really!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Uh....been able to stop when they wanted to...and yet allowing the Spirit to speak through them DOES in fact mean they yielded control

OK, yielding control, but able to stop yielding control if they wanted to. I'll accept that. But you said you tried to speak English and couldn't. That, to me, implies you were unable to stop "yielding", at least until it was all over.

Get alone in your bed room and pray. I know folks that got it praying in their car. This hypnosis stuff is baloney. But yes there is a lot of auto suggestion, like when Benny Hinn makes the front several rows all fall down...that or it's arranged. But people are still receiving the baptism despite the players like him and you can to....assuming what you got the first time was not it. What led you again to decide you faked it?

Are you saying what Benny Hinn does is not the real thing? How do you know that?

I figured out that I faked it after many years of observation (of myself and others), thinking back about my experiences, study, and hearing others admit it. BTW, the term "faked it" is kind of tricky. If I believed it was real (and I did) but it wasn't, is that really faking? "Delusion" may be more accurate.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, yielding control, but able to stop yielding control if they wanted to. I'll accept that. But you said you tried to speak English and couldn't. That, to me, implies you were unable to stop "yielding", at least until it was all over.



Are you saying what Benny Hinn does is not the real thing? How do you know that?

I figured out that I faked it after many years of observation (of myself and others), thinking back about my experiences, study, and hearing others admit it. BTW, the term "faked it" is kind of tricky. If I believed it was real (and I did) but it wasn't, is that really faking? "Delusion" may be more accurate.

Well if you was faking it you should know.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Well if you was faking it you should know.

But I didn't know right then. I was deluded for a long time. It took many years to figure it out.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But I didn't know right then. I was deluded for a long time. It took many years to figure it out.

You were faking and didn't know it??? Then how do you know you are not faking NOW?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

You were faking and didn't know it??? Then how do you know you are not faking NOW?

Faking what now? I don't speak in tongues anymore!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Faking what now? I don't speak in tongues anymore!

Faking what ever you are claiming now.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Faking what ever you are claiming now.

Good point! That could go back and forth forever, couldn't it? If my first tongues were not really fake, and I'm fake faking now, I may go back to tongues, but that could be fake fake faking!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But I didn't know right then. I was deluded for a long time. It took many years to figure it out.

How do you know you aren't deluded now but weren't then? Just because others have admitted to the same thing does not mean you are all right

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How do you know you aren't deluded now but weren't then?

I don't. When it comes down to it, nobody can really know with 100% certainty that anything is "real" or not. You may think you do (are you 100% sure?), because of your experience of not being able to speak English when you tried. But God taking over your speech is not the only possible explanation. You think that's what happened because you were praying for the baptism and you were expecting to speak in tongues, and you take it on faith that what happened was God's doing. It was the same with me (with some differences in the mechanics).

You say hypnosis is bogus. OK, there is some controversy over its validity, but you do admit that "suggestion" plays a role in things like the Benny Hinn Show. The human mind is very complex and no one understands all of its workings. We do know that it can be fooled into believing many things that aren't true. It happens every day, in fact. And suggestion and expectations are a powerful influence, not to mention peer pressure.

Your question applies to you, too. How do you know you're not deluded in thinking that it was God speaking through you? Pointing to scriptures and claiming that you were experiencing the same thing may make you feel more secure in your belief, but it isn't proof. (Not that I'm really asking for proof! I don't think that would even be possible.)

Likewise, I do not have iron-clad proof that my experience (or yours, especially!) was fake. But I have concluded that it is the most likely explanation. Among other things, it gets back to a point I made before: what good is "evidence" if it is so easily faked?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

I don't. When it comes down to it, nobody can really know with 100% certainty that anything is "real" or not. You may think you do (are you 100% sure?), because of your experience of not being able to speak English when you tried.

That was subtle. No sir. It is not "I could not speak english", It's that when I tried to speak english I spoke in other languages in stead...tongues.

But God taking over your speech is not the only possible explanation. You think that's what happened because you were praying for the baptism and you were expecting to speak in tongues, and you take it on faith that what happened was God's doing. It was the same with me (with some differences in the mechanics).

Actually after 6 months I was no longer expecting to speak in tongues. I just instead put aside all my doubts and just worshiped God and called on the name of Jesus and it happened. Same thing happened to Methodists long before the Pentecostal movement. Nobody taught them that they would or could speak in tongues. It just happened.

You say hypnosis is bogus.

I never said hypnosis is bogus. I said the idea that one person is hypnotising people so they speak in tongues is bogus.

OK, there is some controversy over its validity, but you do admit that "suggestion" plays a role in things like the Benny Hinn Show.

Auto suggestion whereby people intentionally fall on cue happens. People that have never seen anyone do that and do not expect it to happen have had it happen anyways. That is not auto suggestion. I "fell" down when I first spoke in tongues. Never did it before. Did not want to do it. Did not think it was gonna happen. Did not see others do it. It just happened. Nobody pushed me. Nobody pulled me. Nobody suggested during that service it would happen.

The human mind is very complex and no one understands all of its workings. We do know that it can be fooled into believing many things that aren't true. It happens every day, in fact. And suggestion and expectations are a powerful influence, not to mention peer pressure.

The same people that put forth these theories to begin with also suggest religion is just a psychological thing and that there is no Jesus. We have been duped and hypnotized etc etc. So what can that say? There are fakes and there are genuines perhaps? Just because there are fakes is no reason to throw away what you received as a genuine experience

Your question applies to you, too. How do you know you're not deluded in thinking that it was God speaking through you? Pointing to scriptures and claiming that you were experiencing the same thing may make you feel more secure in your belief, but it isn't proof. (Not that I'm really asking for proof! I don't think that would even be possible.)

For you it is not proof, but our faith is based on the word of God. We are told to test everything. Here is the difference. After over 20 years of hearing the mockers, scoffers and skeptics, I am still convinced Jesus is Lord. I am still convinced I have Jesus IN me. I can still feel His Spirit and Love and I can still speak in tongues. I have also given messages in tongues that were interpreted by someone else. If I am deluded....why would I not delude myself into giving messages in tongues more often? In fact I gave one message in tongues after over 20 years of being a Pentecostal and never did it before and it's been a year I think since then...how is that hypnotism?

Also who did the hypnotizing? Nobody was speaking. We were just worshiping God

Likewise, I do not have iron-clad proof that my experience (or yours, especially!) was fake. But I have concluded that it is the most likely explanation. Among other things, it gets back to a point I made before: what good is "evidence" if it is so easily faked?

What evidence do you have of a savior or a God? What can't be faked today? But the evidence and experience was GOOD for me. It still is. I am just as passionate about Jesus than I have ever been. I know from my set of circumstances and the situations that I did not fake it. I don't know how to fake it.

What if I really don't speak in tongues? What does that mean?

What if you really DID speak in tongues, but now you have rejected the gift of God...what does THAT mean?