Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

In context, yes, really. These are educated people, not ignorants. Presuming to tell everyone else that they are--oh, take it as far as you like:--not 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit, not Apostolic, not going to heaven. I stand by my post here, wadr.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009
"While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches."

For the record, I have never said any of the things in the first I am not their judge, simply a mere student of the scriptures. I simply try to say what the Word itself says.

I do however have a question.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The message of the Gospel is one of Life and Freedom. Repentance is made, sins are remitted, a new spirit is received and Christ Himself comes to live within you. Can you please tell me in precisely what way, bringing that reality to people is "death-centered." That's the one phrase from your earlier post that you chose to repeat. I am afraid I cannot understand your thinking there. Help me out, please.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

...Can you please tell me in precisely what way, bringing that reality to people is "death-centered." That's the one phrase from your earlier post that you chose to repeat. I am afraid I cannot understand your thinking there. Help me out, please.

It will be hard to hold a mirror up for this, for someone from the West, who has not experienced creation-centered Christianity. The best that I can do is to reiterate that a doctrine, that of Original Sin, was seized upon over the objections of its author, about 400or so years ago, at the Council of Trent.

While it has been completely obscured from us now--intentionally, I have no doubt--this effectively divided the Western world, which then consisted of Western Europe and (pointedly) a nascent little upstart nation, the USA; to the point that one cannot now have a conversation about the Law of sin and death--accepted theology, even in a creation centered model, and backed by Scripture--w/o said "doctrine" entering into the conversation; and generally right from the first reply of the Westerner.

Again, although the connection might be initially hard to make, this is why we have such a fascination with skulls--it's why we like to wear black. This doctrine has completely permeated every area of our society now. I do not post this to change anyones mind--it is too late for that; we have long passed that tipping point--but so that a remnant might recognize, or 'hear,' when the effects become unavoidably evident for all.

While the difference in the Law and the doctrine might seem insignificant, an exercise in semantics, I offer as a type of proof your sunday school education; like making Sunday "the Lord's day," and turning Passover into "Easter" (Ishtar worship), how many times did anyone cover this with you then? Exactly 0, is my guess--in church school. Them what's got ears...


Understand that this does not happen by accident; it takes a sustained effort, over generations.

http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

Will give anyone interested a primer, of sorts.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

It will be hard to hold a mirror up for this, for someone from the West, who has not experienced creation-centered Christianity. The best that I can do is to reiterate that a doctrine, that of Original Sin, was seized upon over the objections of its author, about 400or so years ago, at the Council of Trent.

While it has been completely obscured from us now--intentionally, I have no doubt--this effectively divided the Western world, which then consisted of Western Europe and (pointedly) a nascent little upstart nation, the USA; to the point that one cannot now have a conversation about the Law of sin and death--accepted theology, even in a creation centered model, and backed by Scripture--w/o said "doctrine" entering into the conversation; and generally right from the first reply of the Westerner.

Again, although the connection might be initially hard to make, this is why we have such a fascination with skulls--it's why we like to wear black. This doctrine has completely permeated every area of our society now. I do not post this to change anyones mind--it is too late for that; we have long passed that tipping point--but so that a remnant might recognize, or 'hear,' when the effects become unavoidably evident for all.

While the difference in the Law and the doctrine might seem insignificant, an exercise in semantics, I offer as a type of proof your sunday school education; like making Sunday "the Lord's day," and turning Passover into "Easter" (Ishtar worship), how many times did anyone cover this with you then? Exactly 0, is my guess--in church school. Them what's got ears...


Understand that this does not happen by accident; it takes a sustained effort, over generations.

http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

Will give anyone interested a primer, of sorts.

I am afraid this one is beyond my field. I must leave this for another to develop. What I can do, for those who may be thread surfing and unwilling to take the time to look closely at the link you provide (well worth the effort, in understanding your frame of reference and theological foundation), I can provide a brief introduction to Matthew Fox, for those unfamiliar with him or his work. This is also taken from Wikipedia.

Matthew Fox (born 1940) is an American priest and theologian.[1] Formerly a member of the Dominican Order within the Roman Catholic Church, he is now a member of the Episcopal Church. Fox was an early and influential exponent of a movement that came to be known as Creation Spirituality. The movement draws inspiration from the mystical philosophies of such medieval Catholic visionaries as Hildegard of Bingen, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Francis of Assisi, Julian of Norwich, Dante Alighieri, Meister Eckhart and Nicholas of Cusa, as well as the wisdom traditions of Christian scriptures. Creation Spirituality is also strongly aligned with ecological and environmental movements of the late 20th century and embraces numerous spiritual traditions around the world, including Buddhism, Judaism, Sufism, and Native American spirituality, with a focus on "deep ecumenism".

Fox has written 30 books that have sold millions of copies and by the mid-1990s had attracted a "huge and diverse following".[2] He was likened by academic theologians in one New York Times article to the controversial and influential 20th century Jesuit priest, philosopher and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, particularly for his interpretations of issues such as the doctrine of original sin and the Cosmic Christ and for the resulting conflicts with church authorities.[3]


The full article can be found at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fox_%28priest%29