Come Out Of Her My People

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by renee819

Lafon wrote,


Oh that we could go back to the foundation. And to do that, yes, a lot of stubble sticks and stones would have to be torn down. I'm not sure that there are many that would be willing to do that

renee819, I am persuaded that the battles which lie just beyond the horizon of the morrow for all of God's chosen people will bring about a return to the way things were done by the Christians of the 1st Century. What man is unwilling to do of their own accord, circumstances will compel it to be so. Of this I am irrevocably convinced... change is coming to the manner in which we "do Church," but sadly, at this time, most are ill prepared for it!

Daniel 11:35
"And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Lafon

renee819, I am persuaded that the battles which lie just beyond the horizon of the morrow for all of God's chosen people will bring about a return to the way things were done by the Christians of the 1st Century. What man is unwilling to do of their own accord, circumstances will compel it to be so. Of this I am irrevocably convinced... change is coming to the manner in which we "do Church," but sadly, at this time, most are ill prepared for it!

Daniel 11:35
"And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

It makes me weep to think about it. And yes, this is true. Some of the things that we are posting on here now, may in the future cause us persecution. But I think it is important to warn people.

It is a shame that God has to bring persecution to get His Church, to be serious enough to give up "the spirit of this world." And the desire to be accepted by other churches, to the point of compromising the Truth.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Daniel 11:35
"And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

Originally Posted by renee819

It makes me weep to think about it. And yes, this is true. Some of the things that we are posting on here now, may in the future cause us persecution. But I think it is important to warn people.

It is a shame that God has to bring persecution to get His Church, to be serious enough to give up "the spirit of this world." And the desire to be accepted by other churches, to the point of compromising the Truth.

And this absolutely makes no sense to me. I know I know, "You clearly do not have spiritual insight!" is what I will hear. . . . .

[renee819]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

And this absolutely makes no sense to me. I know I know, "You clearly do not have spiritual insight!" is what I will hear. . . . .

No, I won't say that to you. But I will ask, have you done much studies on end-time Prophecy. And I'm not talking about just reading Ervin Baxters or someone else's books. But study from the Word of God? Although books can help, but you have to wade thru a lot of misinformation, and compare it with the Bible.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by renee819

No, I won't say that to you. But I will ask, have you done much studies on end-time Prophecy. And I'm not talking about just reading Ervin Baxters or someone else's books. But study from the Word of God? Although books can help, but you have to wade thru a lot of misinformation, and compare it with the Bible.

Placing the question mark on the end of that sentence sums up this whole thread.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Placing the question mark on the end of that sentence sums up this whole thread.

Evang Ben, most of what I put on here is from the Word of God.
After I started seriously studying about 50--55 yrs ago.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by renee819

Evang Ben, most of what I put on here is from the Word of God.
After I started seriously studying about 50--55 yrs ago.

Sister, do you believe that Presbyterian, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Southern Baptist Convention, United Pentecostal Church Intentional, and Roman Catholic Church Theologians and scholars have put in just the same amount of time as you? Some of these men not just reading English translations but studying manuscripts, and documents in the original languages? Sister, please, "most" of what you put on here is "scripture?" Sister that is like Matthew Henry saying that most of what he had written in his commentaries is "mostly" scripture, while that is a true statement for both of you, you obviously don't come to the same conclusion but both would say that your writings are "mostly" scripture.

The Bible should be able to flesh itself out when given the chance, and must be kept in its context to be understood. The information being handled within its prophetic frame work is dealing with those who were waiting for the promise to be fulfilled. Why would John tell people living in his time to reckon the number of the beast, if that beast wouldn't even be on the scene for 2,000 years. Why would he require them to have wisdom to figure something out that would NEVER be able to be deciphered until the year 2013?

You've been studying for 50 something years? Praise Jesus, may you be guided by the Spirit of Truth, and not the spirit of agenda.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

And what the RCC has put into place has led to sin. It was sin in the first place, because, …Constantine, for Political reasons, a Pagan until he died, took churches away from Pagan Priests and gave them, to the Christians. Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity.

It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine.

Quote:

Constantine built the first church in Constantinople, which is documented. It's also documented that he considered himself a Christian and was baptized later in life. Not saying he was right, only that history states he was influenced by his mother and declared himself to be a Christian. Where is it written that in order to have the churches, they had to agree to baptize in the Trinity?

Could he be a Christian and also a Sun Worshiper? Which he was all of his life. He was baptized on his death bed.

Originally Posted by renee819

Of course Tithes were in the OT

.

Quote

You gave a list of a few things you claimed were started by the RCC, you listed tithes among them; my point was not to debate whether or not it should be in practice today, the point was it was not something started by the RCC. The origins were in the OT

.

If you remember, I also said that Constantine, combined Paganism, Old Testament and Christianity together.
The Early Church did not practice Tithing, and most of the things that were in the OT. But some of those things the RCC, in starting a Universal Religion, started those things again..

TheRCC didn't start the Trinity. Almost every Pagan Religion has a Trinity of gods, a Mother (Queen of Heaven) Father and Son. But they authorized it into the Church, where if you baptized any other way, you had your property taken away, whether a church or a home. Many were jailed, and many martyred.

Originally Posted by renee819

Again to find Priests, and Synagogues, you have to go back to the Old Testament.

Quote

What was Jesus doing, and where was he doing it when he went missing for several days as a child? He was teaching in the Synagogue. That's NT. There are several stories of Jesus and the Apostles which show them being at the Temple or Synagogue.

Of course Jesus went into the Synagogues. The OT was still in effect. Jesus came to fulfill the OT, and it was in effect until the Cross. He could not set up the New Covenant, until the Old was fulfilled.
And as far as the Apostles, they went where the people were. But they were not the leaders of the Synagogues. And many times kicked out, or arrested.

Quote

As for clergy being a "sin" we've taken from the TCC, Paul disagrees in Ephesians 4

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

You mentioned that the hierarchy of Clergy and Laity was started by the RCC, and while they do have their positions, it does not mean that all churches are in sin because they have a Pastor over them with other church leaders as well. Why would Paul speak of these ministries and positions as being given by God, if it were not to be implemented and followed?

I don't believe that I said that the Clergy was sin. "Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity. It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine."
And the way that it is being used by the Clergy, is sin. As little Kings over little Kingdoms. Pride in THEIR CHUCH. Ran like a business. Some pastors are Dictators, I've had a few. A stage with performers, with spectators instead of participating. That's just a few.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renee819
Jesus told the Apostles,...

Matthew 20:25-26 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Quote

You are taking this out of context and meaning. This was in response to a mother who wanted her two sons to be seated at the right and left hand of God. This is not speaking about the church.

Although, that is what started the argument, if He had just been settling the argument, He would have called those three over to talk to them. But He used it as an example of how those in Leadership, should not exercise “dominion' over each other.

Originally Posted by renee819

I've met many ministers that claim to be humble, and are there to minister to the people, but if you try to point out what you think is not right, see what happens. I have seen it happen over and over again. For instance, there was a big split in the church that I belonged to, for over 30 yrs. Over toeless shoes.

Quote:

This takes me back to something you mentioned in your first post above...

Originally Posted by renee819

And this makes my 3rd Sunday to a Pentecostal Church. I talked to the Pastor a few minutes after church, and told him, I didn't believe in man-made laws for the church. But we didn't have time to discuss it.
It seems they may be pretty strict on the UPC rules, although I believe they are Independent. I told the Pastor that we, he, his wife, and I, need to set down and have a talk. But we haven't yet. Any suggestions?

Quote

On your 3rd visit to a church, you tell a Pastor that you don't believe in man-made laws for the church and that you, him and his wife need to have a talk...? What are you hoping to gain from this?

I've seen church splits as well. They're mostly started by someone who starts coming to a church, who disagrees with what the Pastor is preaching/teaching and instead of removing themselves from the church, they demand to speak with the Pastor to give their thoughts about how he's wrong....and then when the Pastor doesn't give in to their demands, they go through the church, causing division.

So this is your suggestion. That I was out of order for inquiring what their standards are? And are you insinuating, that I was there to cause a split?
I was hoping to gain information as to what they believe? What Organization if any that they belong. And I was being transparent, maybe they won't want me there. I could feel the coolness last Sunday, I probably won't go back.


.

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

If you remember, I also said that Constantine, combined Paganism, Old Testament and Christianity together.
The Early Church did not practice Tithing, and most of the things that were in the OT. But some of those things the RCC, in starting a Universal Religion, started those things again.

Again, the point wasn't whether they practiced it or not, it was that you stated it started (originated) with the RCC. It did not.

Originally Posted by renee819

TheRCC didn't start the Trinity. Almost every Pagan Religion has a Trinity of gods, a Mother (Queen of Heaven) Father and Son. But they authorized it into the Church, where if you baptized any other way, you had your property taken away, whether a church or a home. Many were jailed, and many martyred.

So the RCC baptizes in the Mother, Father and Son? Never heard of that before.

Originally Posted by renee819

Of course Jesus went into the Synagogues. The OT was still in effect. Jesus came to fulfill the OT, and it was in effect until the Cross. He could not set up the New Covenant, until the Old was fulfilled.
And as far as the Apostles, they went where the people were. But they were not the leaders of the Synagogues. And many times kicked out, or arrested.

So where is it in the Bible where the NC established home churches as the way? I really don't see this on God's list of important things, and it's mentioned nowhere in scripture. Jesus used a mountainside, a boat, the home of a sinner, and other venues to get his message out. If you want to start a house ministry, by all means do so. But don't try to say it's a sin to have a church building.

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God.

This isn't just a suggestion, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” I believe that we should forsake all the things that SHE brought in, and go strictly by the Bible.

Originally Posted by renee819

I don't believe that I said that the Clergy was sin. "Which sounds great, but at what price? They had to compromise, agree to baptize in the Trinity. It is a sin to compromise with False Doctrine." And the way that it is being used by the Clergy, is sin. As little Kings over little Kingdoms. Pride in THEIR CHURCH. Ran like a business. Some pastors are Dictators, I've had a few. A stage with performers, with spectators instead of participating. That's just a few.

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

It's on your list of sins you claim were brought in by the RCC.

There may be some power-hungry Pastors, but they're not in the majority. It certainly doesn't mean the role is sinful.

Originally Posted by renee819

Although, that is what started the argument, if He had just been settling the argument, He would have called those three over to talk to them. But He used it as an example of how those in Leadership, should not exercise “dominion' over each other.

The reason he called them to Him was because the Bible says the other disciples were filled with indignation against the two; so Jesus addressed the issue with them all. You used this scripture to try and enforce your argument that priests or clergy were just from the OT.

Again to find Priests, and Synagogues, you have to go back to the Old Testament. Jesus told the Apostles,...

That scripture doesn't support your belief that the hierarchy of the clergy is wrong. The verse is speaking of humility, not a ban on clergy. Paul reflects this when he writes in 1 Peter 5 that a minister should not "lord over" their flock.

Originally Posted by renee819

So this is your suggestion. That I was out of order for inquiring what their standards are? And are you insinuating, that I was there to cause a split? I was hoping to gain information as to what they believe? What Organization if any that they belong. And I was being transparent, maybe they won't want me there. I could feel the coolness last Sunday, I probably won't go back.

And this makes my 3rd Sunday to a Pentecostal Church. I talked to the Pastor a few minutes after church, and told him, I didn't believe in man-made laws for the church. But we didn't have time to discuss it.
It seems they may be pretty strict on the UPC rules, although I believe they are Independent. I told the Pastor that we, he, his wife, and I, need to set down and have a talk. But we haven't yet. Any suggestions?

I didn't insinuate anything. In fact, I asked what you hoped to gain from what you wrote above. You said on your third visit you told the Pastor you didn't believe in man-made laws for the church. It's an odd way to gain information about anything. Then you said you told the Pastor that you, him and his wife need to sit down and have a talk. Again, the way it's written makes it appear like you were doing more than simply asking what they believe or what their standards are. Sorry if you were offended, but the way it's written above made it sound like you were putting him on notice first, then wanting to talk about it.

My comment about splits was based on what I've seen in the church my father Pastored and another church. It wasn't aimed directly at you; you mentioned splits and I responded. In the church my father Pastored, there were several people - one a "retired" Pastor - who came through, trying to divide the church.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by renee819

So this is your suggestion. That I was out of order for inquiring what their standards are? And are you insinuating, that I was there to cause a split?
I was hoping to gain information as to what they believe? What Organization if any that they belong. And I was being transparent, maybe they won't want me there. I could feel the coolness last Sunday, I probably won't go back.

Sister, did you walk up to the minister and TELL him that YOU weren't into MAN MADE RULES IN THE CHURCH?

When did you feel the coolness? Was it before or after you TOLD Pastor John Q Foofoofnick how the cow ate the cabbage?

Being transparent?

You felt by the 3rd Sunday it was time to be transparent and candid?

To TELL the preacher that he is nothing but a Pagan advocating false prophet? I know it didn't sound like that to you, but maybe, just maybe, it sounded like that to him? You believe 3 Sundays are adequate enough time to reveal your hidden manna? Do you really feel that this guy was going to fall down on his face worshiping God, and report that God is in you of a truth?

You made the comment that some pastors are dictators, so what does that mean? Are you saying that because some people abused their authority that makes their position null and void?

Another thing because the platform (pulpit) is used for entertainment by "some" that means it is wrong for all?