Come Out Of Her My People

[renee819]

n. David wrote,

This thread is amazing.......ly absurd. Sorry if that offends you.

It started with the claim that the RCC invented church buildings, tithes, clergy and other things which were then labeled sinful because of the RCC connection...

and now it's just a regular Barnum and Bailey 3-ring circus by spending several pages debating whether or not we should call a building the house of God. Six pages thus far on what to call a building

David, don't you think that you are stretching the truth, some. A whole lot!

David wrote,

It started with the claim that the RCC invented church buildings, tithes, clergy and other things which were then labeled sinful because of the RCC connection

.

What I actually said,

Come Out Of Her My People

Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things

.

I never, in any of my Posts wrote, that the Catholic Church invented any of these things. I also wrote that the RCC COMBINED Christianity with Paganism and the Old Testament.

Meaning they took bits of the OT Law, (Priesthood----Temples---Tithes) and combined with the Pagan notion of three gods, (Trinity---later the Holidays)) And for Political reasons combined it with Christianity. Trying to combine all Religions into one. And they AUTHORIZED, made it official, that anyone that did not do as they had set it up, would be persecuted.

For the record---The Catholic Church, DID NOT INVENT ANYTHING. Except to try to force all Religions into ONE. Just as she is trying to do today, along with the United Religions Org and a host of other Organizations. And they will get the job done.

I did not put this article on here to cause confusion, or controversy, although I also knew that it probably would-----because---people are too comfortable in what they have been taught, therefore resisting any facts, that they could easily check out. Too comfortable to check, to study, and see if what I'm writing is true. Too afraid, even to calmly discuss what I have written. They would rather throw dirt, mockery and ridicule, than to get out of their comfort zone and do some study.

I am old enough to see that the church, that in the past that was bound with man-made laws, now is switching to become more like the other churches, more like the world, and is slowly dying.
Both are wrong doctrines, however, those that were willing to forsake the lifestyles of those around them, loved Jesus enough to be “different” if it was required, and so God continued to bless.

Just as God does not care what you wear, (except all thru the Bible, we are taught to be modest. And if you are modest in heart, you will dress modest,) It is the same with buildings. God does not care what building you meet in. He does not live in buildings. Because we are the church, it is not church, until the people of God get there.

But it is not my intention on this Post to discuss buildings, tithes, Trinity, but to discuss, How that people can come out of the lackadaisical mindset, that is causing them to drift towards the falls. And to do that we have to WAKE-UP, and realize, the Leaders are not always right, therefore we have to do some study on our own and know that we know, what God's Word says.

Those that will not WAKE-UP and see the Paganism in their lives, will go one or two ways. They will gradually drift until they will accept the ONE WORLD RELIGION, which I believe is the STRONG DELUSION of these last days.
Or they will stand firm in their churches, until their churches are taken away from them.

God says, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE. And to do that, most do not know, that, that is a completely different mindset. And takes a dedication that is just about as different as the Old Covenant was from the New Covenant.

And in this day, the Denominations are about as bound by Traditions, conventional thinking, as it was in Paul's day, when he chastised the Early Church, for trying to hold on to their traditions.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What is of the flesh? I believe that each individual has to find that out for themselves as they STUDY and OBEY, the Word of God, with dedication to God.

Since I don't have all of the answers, it could even be, that if a person could find even a half decent church, that they would be instructed as Jesus instructed the Jews. “Do as they say, but not as to their works.” And of course this was temporary, because Jesus had to confirm the Law, until it was finished.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by renee819

I never, in any of my Posts wrote, that the Catholic Church invented any of these things. I also wrote that the RCC COMBINED Christianity with Paganism and the Old Testament.

Meaning they took bits of the OT Law, (Priesthood----Temples---Tithes) and combined with the Pagan notion of three gods, (Trinity---later the Holidays)) And for Political reasons combined it with Christianity. Trying to combine all Religions into one. And they AUTHORIZED, made it official, that anyone that did not do as they had set it up, would be persecuted.

So Christianity has nothing to do with the Old Testament?
Really?
You do know the Old Testament s a reference to the Old Covenant called by Judaism as Torah? Right?
You do know that GOD said He would write the "Torah" upon the Christian heart right?
Well apparently not; hence, the delusion...

Still waiting for you to demonstrate YOUR assertions!


I did not put this article on here to cause confusion, or controversy, although I also knew that it probably would-----because---people are too comfortable in what they have been taught, therefore resisting any facts, that they could easily check out. Too comfortable to check, to study, and see if what I'm writing is true. Too afraid, even to calmly discuss what I have written. They would rather throw dirt, mockery and ridicule, than to get out of their comfort zone and do some study.

Pretty judgmental here don't you think! Just because people don't see the world you do it is because THEY are comfortable and certainly not because you could possibly be wrong... Speaking of "FACTS" what "FACTS" have you presented... NONE! What to afraid to put your "FACTS" out there?

BTW do you believe Peter was the first Pope?
If not when do YOU think the RCC began?
What FACTS do you have to support your thesis?


I am old enough to see that the church, that in the past that was bound with man-made laws, now is switching to become more like the other churches, more like the world, and is slowly dying.
Both are wrong doctrines, however, those that were willing to forsake the lifestyles of those around them, loved Jesus enough to be “different” if it was required, and so God continued to bless.

Some perhaps not all. I know of churches being planted that stand for truth so your hyperbole is nothing but that - hyperbole.

Just as God does not care what you wear, (except all thru the Bible, we are taught to be modest. And if you are modest in heart, you will dress modest,) It is the same with buildings. God does not care what building you meet in. He does not live in buildings. Because we are the church, it is not church, until the people of God get there.

Please demonstrate where ANYONE denied that humanity is the temple of the Holy Ghost...
Facts truly are pesky things...


But it is not my intention on this Post to discuss buildings, tithes, Trinity, but to discuss, How that people can come out of the lackadaisical mindset, that is causing them to drift towards the falls. And to do that we have to WAKE-UP, and realize, the Leaders are not always right, therefore we have to do some study on our own and know that we know, what God's Word says.

Hmmm... perhaps that is the problem. Bypassing what the Bible says:
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The same disease Miriam had...
Num 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
Num 12:2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
The same rebellious spirit that says we don't need leadership. We don't need to submit to any man because we can do our own study; thereby, denying the Bible.



Those that will not WAKE-UP and see the Paganism in their lives, will go one or two ways. They will gradually drift until they will accept the ONE WORLD RELIGION, which I believe is the STRONG DELUSION of these last days.
Or they will stand firm in their churches, until their churches are taken away from them.

God says, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE. And to do that, most do not know, that, that is a completely different mindset. And takes a dedication that is just about as different as the Old Covenant was from the New Covenant.

Another wild eyed accusation...
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?
You think that because I go to a church building that I am somehow under a strong delusion?
Give me a break!
Apparently you have no idea where church buildings originated. They originated in the SYNAGOGUE! Read the Bible and where do you find the Apostles? In the Synagogues!
Where do you find Jesus - in the SYNAGOGUE!
How did/do Jews maintain their unique identity as Jews?
They go to SYNAGOGUE!

I will not even get into how the LAW (you know the OT is to be written in the Christian heart).


And in this day, the Denominations are about as bound by Traditions, conventional thinking, as it was in Paul's day, when he chastised the Early Church, for trying to hold on to their traditions.



What is of the flesh? I believe that each individual has to find that out for themselves as they STUDY and OBEY, the Word of God, with dedication to God.

Since I don't have all of the answers, it could even be, that if a person could find even a half decent church, that they would be instructed as Jesus instructed the Jews. “Do as they say, but not as to their works.” And of course this was temporary, because Jesus had to confirm the Law, until it was finished.

Please demonstrate where the Law is "finished"...

[Praxeas]

talk about semantics...yeah she never did say "invent" she said "brought them in" and yet there is no proof the RCC did that

In fact I presented evidence to the contrary

[shag]

Our local church gathered in the city park (I mean Gods House) 2 weekends ago. Music, a few testimonies of deliverance, a drama, and then preaching. 14 were baptised.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by shag

Our local church gathered in the city park (I mean Gods House) 2 weekends ago. Music, a few testimonies of deliverance, a drama, and then preaching. 14 were baptised.

Ah and you gathered there because the Roman Catholics invented man made buildings?

[n david]

Originally Posted by renee819

David, don't you think that you are stretching the truth, some. A whole lot!

Really?

Originally Posted by renee819;1273973"

Let's face it. We are ruled in the
churches by Pagan Christianity.
It was the Catholic Church that brought
in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things.

This isn't just a suggestion, "Come out of
her, my people, that ye be not partakers
of her sins, and that ye receive not of her
plagues." I believe that we should
forsake all the things that SHE brought in,
and go strictly by the Bible.

You claimed it was the RCC which brought in...church buildings.

Originally Posted by renee819

Too comfortable to check, to study, and see if what I'm writing is true. Too afraid, even to calmly discuss what I have written. They would rather throw dirt, mockery and ridicule, than to get out of their comfort zone and do some study.

1) I don't believe your initial post is true.
2) I believe I have calmly discussed this
3) With the exception of one post, which was still a valid question, I have not mocked or ridiculed. It's easy to complain about ridicule and mockery when you don't like the answers.

Originally Posted by renee819

Just as God does not care what you wear, (except all thru the Bible, we are taught to be modest. And if you are modest in heart, you will dress modest,) It is the same with buildings. God does not care what building you meet in. He does not live in buildings. Because we are the church, it is not church, until the people of God get there.

But you said we need to come out of buildings; said they were sins from the RCC. Which is it? This is not ridicule...it's a valid question.

Originally Posted by renee819

But it is not my intention on this Post to discuss buildings, tithes, Trinity, but to discuss, How that people can come out of the lackadaisical mindset, that is causing them to drift towards the falls. And to do that we have to WAKE-UP, and realize, the Leaders are not always right, therefore we have to do some study on our own and know that we know, what God's Word says.

It wasn't your intention to discuss those things!?! You led your first post with those things. Why lead off with that if it wasn't your intention to discuss it?

[Praxeas]

She did not substantiate a single assertion, so the problem is hers

I refuted the argument about buildings.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

She did not substantiate a single assertion, so the problem is hers

I refuted the argument about buildings.

Thank you, and may I say you did a fine job.

[renee819]

Don't some of you men get it? Buildings is just part of the problem or possibly not the problem at all. It is the mentality that puts emphasis on the building, that people have to come to that building to hear from God. To feel the presence of God. That makes people dependent on one man, to get in touch with God FOR THEM. Leaving the impression, although it is never said, that they can't hear from God themselves. And why should they study, if they have to agree with everything that the ministers say? For instance, if a member, came to the Pastor and said, “Pastor, you said,-------, but the Bible says, ------------.” more than likely they will be shown the door.

I tried that once. I had already made up my mind to leave that church. The Pastor was not only wrong in teaching Positive Thinking doctrine and the Prosperity Doctrine, but was going into other false doctrines. I started talking to him about the Prosperity Doctrine, he didn't let me get very far when he said, “Sister-----don't you dare come against what I am teaching.”
I wouldn't and didn't tell other members, but I left. Later he lost that church and he left.

WHAT IS THE FIVE-FOLD MINISTRY FOR?

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

:

The five-fold ministry is to perfect the saints, in order for them to carry on the ministry.

As the writer of Hebrews wrote, chastizing them for not taking up the work of the ministry,...

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

A ministry, that does not prepare all of the saints, to use the GIFTS that God gave them, for the work of the ministry, to reach out to the lost, and for the members to grow in their own search for more of God, is failing their calling.

Someone is failing somewhere, because it is clear that the Church is nowhere where God wants it, nowhere near making the impact on the world, that the Early Church did. And instead of maturing, it has become a baby, needing milk.

And instead of talking about things that would help the baby grow, help her get out of the Paganism that she is in. Which was my intention in mentioning just some of the glaring problems that the RCC instituted, made it a law, whether they borrowed it from the Jews, or Paganism, they combined it with Christianity.
And as each reformer brought some reformation to the table, they kept some of their former beliefs, like Luther, keeping much of the Catholic Religion. None of them completely coming out of the Traditions set up by the RCC. But each starting a new Denomination.

Then in the early 1900's, as each received the 'born again experience' they came out of those Denominations, the Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, all of the Denominations, but kept some of the Traditions set up by men. And now we in Pentecost have set up some of our own man-made rules, ruling the members by “traditions of men.”

People seem to think of traditions as a good thing, never stopping to find out where the tradition came from, but Jesus said,

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

They, the Priests, had taken the Law of Moses, that God had set up, and added their own traditions, laws and rules. Just as we find the condition of the Church today.
Some Pastors even holding the members in bondage, with their preaching. Not giving the member room to grow. Not encouraging private prayer or Bible study. What if in private Bible study the member finds that the preacher, minister, Pastor, got off track? Can they tell the Pastor? Will the Pastor listen to a lowly member? Or even discuss what is found?

We need Pentecostal Reform, but if no body wants it, or sees the need for it, I see Persecution coming. It will come, because it is prophesied, whether we Reform or not. But I fear for those that will not change, I fear that they will join the One World Religion.
Those that cry out for the truth of Real Pentecost, will be persecuted, but will reap the rewards in the next life.