Come Out Of Her My People

[renee819]

Thank you Rudy, for putting those videos on here.
They are very interesting.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by renee819

Thank you Rudy, for putting those videos on here.
They are very interesting.

From the COOLJC(otAF), Inc.'s website -

http://www.cooljc.org/?page_id=7

"William L. Bonner became the third presider in 1973 and reign to 1995. He is now the Chief Apostle."

Notice how the 'presider's are said to 'reign'. Also notice they have Mr Bonner identified as the 'Chief Apostle.

Compare with Scriptural teachings regarding:

1. The use of religious titles.
2. Wanting to have 'pre-eminence' (aka Diotrephes, anyone?)
3. 'Reigning' (ie 'lording it over', ruling as the gentiles do, etc).

Here we have the hierarchical clergy system imported into Christianity by what would later become the catholic church, being emulated quite nicely (with modern updates, of course) by an 'apostolic' denomination.

I wonder why they don't just call their leader a 'pope'?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From the COOLJC(otAF), Inc.'s website -

http://www.cooljc.org/?page_id=7

"William L. Bonner became the third presider in 1973 and reign to 1995. He is now the Chief Apostle."

Notice how the 'presider's are said to 'reign'. Also notice they have Mr Bonner identified as the 'Chief Apostle.

Compare with Scriptural teachings regarding:

1. The use of religious titles.
2. Wanting to have 'pre-eminence' (aka Diotrephes, anyone?)
3. 'Reigning' (ie 'lording it over', ruling as the gentiles do, etc).

Here we have the hierarchical clergy system imported into Christianity by what would later become the catholic church, being emulated quite nicely (with modern updates, of course) by an 'apostolic' denomination.

I wonder why they don't just call their leader a 'pope'?

They might as well, looks the same doesn't it. Even though home assembly has its issues this structure would never manifest itself. Reason being Jesus is acknowledged as head. No earthly head/ruler in most home assemblies. The ministry is functional/servantile and can be paid, say traveling expenses or missionary work.

One issue home assembly has here in the U.S. is lack of evangelism and missionary work. Apostleship = church planting maybe?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Rudy

One issue home assembly has here in the U.S. is lack of evangelism and missionary work. Apostleship = church planting maybe?

I agree with the 'apostleship = church planting', assuming the church planting is primarily evangelistic ie consisting of a 'missionary' (the 'bible term' would be 'apostle') preaching in an area to the unsaved, they become converted, and the missionary organizes them into a distinct ecclesia, maintaining oversight of the church until they are able to have organic eldership, then the missionary moves on. Or the missionary may 'move on' as soon as he judges the new church is capable of sustaining itself at least temporarily while he is busy in the next church planting endeavor.

In other words, like the apostle Paul did it.

As for lack of evangelism, while this certainly may be true of Oneness groups I have noticed a proliferation of either Baptistic or Reformed and to an extent Charismatic house churches springing up. Some of them are big on street preaching/open air preaching (well, the Baptist ones anyway).

Unfortunately, I think the Oneness Pentecostal movement has already been left behind by current move of God. I could be wrong, but I think that is what we are seeing... which was actually warned about many decades ago, back in the 20s, by one of the 'original Pentecostal pioneers' (Bartleman).

Anyway, God will raise up children unto Abraham from even the stones on the street corner if He chooses to...

[Rudy]

Yes, There seems to be street healings as well. Thomas Fisher is one that seems to be legit---youtube.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I agree with the 'apostleship = church planting', assuming the church planting is primarily evangelistic ie consisting of a 'missionary' (the 'bible term' would be 'apostle') preaching in an area to the unsaved, they become converted, and the missionary organizes them into a distinct ecclesia, maintaining oversight of the church until they are able to have organic eldership, then the missionary moves on. Or the missionary may 'move on' as soon as he judges the new church is capable of sustaining itself at least temporarily while he is busy in the next church planting endeavor.

In other words, like the apostle Paul did it.

As for lack of evangelism, while this certainly may be true of Oneness groups I have noticed a proliferation of either Baptistic or Reformed and to an extent Charismatic house churches springing up. Some of them are big on street preaching/open air preaching (well, the Baptist ones anyway).

Unfortunately, I think the Oneness Pentecostal movement has already been left behind by current move of God. I could be wrong, but I think that is what we are seeing... which was actually warned about many decades ago, back in the 20s, by one of the 'original Pentecostal pioneers' (Bartleman).

Anyway, God will raise up children unto Abraham from even the stones on the street corner if He chooses to...

Current move of God?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From the COOLJC(otAF), Inc.'s website -

http://www.cooljc.org/?page_id=7

"William L. Bonner became the third presider in 1973 and reign to 1995. He is now the Chief Apostle."

Notice how the 'presider's are said to 'reign'. Also notice they have Mr Bonner identified as the 'Chief Apostle.

Compare with Scriptural teachings regarding:

1. The use of religious titles.
2. Wanting to have 'pre-eminence' (aka Diotrephes, anyone?)
3. 'Reigning' (ie 'lording it over', ruling as the gentiles do, etc).

Here we have the hierarchical clergy system imported into Christianity by what would later become the catholic church, being emulated quite nicely (with modern updates, of course) by an 'apostolic' denomination.

I wonder why they don't just call their leader a 'pope'?

Esaias, I didn't watch that one. I watched some on how House Churches function. I tried to find a Pentecostal House Church on U tube, I didn't find any.

[renee819]

I did not start this Thread to attack anyone personally. I feel like that I was the one being attacked. I guess this subject can't be discussed on this Forum.

I know that most Pentecostals and Apostolics have the right foundation, as long as they stick to the Apostles Doctrine in the book of Acts. However, I can see that we are being destroyed, by a system, foreign to Acts. And yes, I attacked the system. But the greater message of my Post was ignored.

The reason that I said that we might have to start home churches, is that any dedicated saint that has done their homework can see some of the problems. And then, can that member go to their Pastor and say, “Pastor, I see by the Word of God that we need to make some changes.” Do you think for a minute that Pastor will even listen?
They would be received about like my Post was received on here.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

I did not start this Thread to attack anyone personally. I feel like that I was the one being attacked. I guess this subject can't be discussed on this Forum

We ARE discussing IT.

I know that most Pentecostals and Apostolics have the right foundation, as long as they stick to the Apostles Doctrine in the book of Acts. However, I can see that we are being destroyed, by a system, foreign to Acts. And yes, I attacked the system. But the greater message of my Post was ignored.

I ignored it because I found this one particular issue in error

The reason that I said that we might have to start home churches, is that any dedicated saint that has done their homework can see some of the problems.

So certain people do not have the right foundation and or are not dedicated saints?

I've done MY homework and I can see, because I have, that you have a lot of views you can't really substantiate despite claiming to have done your homework.

And then, can that member go to their Pastor and say, “Pastor, I see by the Word of God that we need to make some changes.” Do you think for a minute that Pastor will even listen?
They would be received about like my Post was received on here.

There are issues with your post. I don't receive it, NOT because I am not a christian, not because I am a sinner, not because I lack love, not because I am a Pagan, not because I have not done my homework, not because I am not dedicated and not because I don't have the right foundation but because some of the things you said are either NOT TRUE or have not been substantiated as being true.

As long as you passively suggest others here are sinners, pagans, lack love etc etc etc, YOU WILL BE ATTACKED. Sorry but people in glass houses should not throw stones