An Apology

[bishoph]

Ok, Ok Seekerman, let's get where the rubber meets the road. Since you say there are many yeah even great numbers of those who have died as a result of such doctrine.......how many do you know of personally that have died as a result of this doctrine? You have testified that you know of several groups that espouse to the doctrine in question.....out of those you know personally....how many children have been allowed to die suffering because they were denied medical attention due to their parents/their churches teaching?

This is the stuff the news media eats up.....cases have been reported and NONE of those to date that I have seen have been "apostolic." I realize that I do not have ALL knowledge of ALL such incidents.....however I do read the news extensively most days, and these incidents are MAYBE one/two every few years. (That is too many IMO)



So.........Seekerman.......the ball is in your court.....present your evidence and let's see if it really proves your accusations as true.

[tv1a]

My mom almost died twice because of this doctrine.
One of my sisters was born at home. Her twin was stillborn at birth. The preacher put the baby in a garbage bag. 3 women died at home because they didn't treated for infection. No doctors at nurses were allowed. After we left the preacher's wife developed the same symptoms. His relative was a nurse at a local hospital. She got treated at home. The preacher declared God's miracle working power without the assistance of a doctor.

I've know similar cases in other areas. Just not as intimately as the one I experienced.

Originally Posted by bishoph

Ok, Ok Seekerman, let's get where the rubber meets the road. Since you say there are many yeah even great numbers of those who have died as a result of such doctrine.......how many do you know of personally that have died as a result of this doctrine? You have testified that you know of several groups that espouse to the doctrine in question.....out of those you know personally....how many children have been allowed to die suffering because they were denied medical attention due to their parents/their churches teaching?

This is the stuff the news media eats up.....cases have been reported and NONE of those to date that I have seen have been "apostolic." I realize that I do not have ALL knowledge of ALL such incidents.....however I do read the news extensively most days, and these incidents are MAYBE one/two every few years. (That is too many IMO)



So.........Seekerman.......the ball is in your court.....present your evidence and let's see if it really proves your accusations as true.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by tv1a

My mom almost died twice because of this doctrine.
One of my sisters was born at home. Her twin was stillborn at birth. The preacher put the baby in a garbage bag. 3 women died at home because they didn't treated for infection. No doctors at nurses were allowed. After we left the preacher's wife developed the same symptoms. His relative was a nurse at a local hospital. She got treated at home. The preacher declared God's miracle working power without the assistance of a doctor.

I've know similar cases in other areas. Just not as intimately as the one I experienced.

Please understand.....I am not trying to be crass as it relates to your family's experience. That said, you stated that one of the twins was still born....would that have been any different in a hospital? The truth of the matter is.....no one knows for sure. I am not arguing (and never have) that such teaching is not done. I have and will continue to speak out against errant doctrine, which IMO is anyone in our day that would allow a child to suffer because they refused to get medical treatment. What I am arguing is that even you cannot name a large number of children that have suffered/died as a result of such teaching among apostolics specifically.

I am sorry for those that died as a result of ignorance.....yet I also believe that I cannot die one day sooner than God intends for me to die....unless I commit suicide.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Please understand.....I am not trying to be crass as it relates to your family's experience. That said, you stated that one of the twins was still born....would that have been any different in a hospital? The truth of the matter is.....no one knows for sure. I am not arguing (and never have) that such teaching is not done. I have and will continue to speak out against errant doctrine, which IMO is anyone in our day that would allow a child to suffer because they refused to get medical treatment. What I am arguing is that even you cannot name a large number of children that have suffered/died as a result of such teaching among apostolics specifically.

I am sorry for those that died as a result of ignorance.....yet I also believe that I cannot die one day sooner than God intends for me to die....unless I commit suicide.

This isn't about the NUMBER of infants and children who have SUFFERED.....get that...SUFFERED and sometimes died, it's about the practice.

I've been demonized for stating the truth. The truth is, it happens in the 'apostolic' movement. Truth. Nothing to fear.

[tv1a]

I believe it has happened much more than can be proven. Social media has changed a lot of things. It would harder for people to play that game.

A couple of extra notes. This wasn't the first church we attended. We moved into town and my father thought it was a good idea at the time. He referred that decision to his dying day.

Originally Posted by bishoph

Please understand.....I am not trying to be crass as it relates to your family's experience. That said, you stated that one of the twins was still born....would that have been any different in a hospital? The truth of the matter is.....no one knows for sure. I am not arguing (and never have) that such teaching is not done. I have and will continue to speak out against errant doctrine, which IMO is anyone in our day that would allow a child to suffer because they refused to get medical treatment. What I am arguing is that even you cannot name a large number of children that have suffered/died as a result of such teaching among apostolics specifically.

I am sorry for those that died as a result of ignorance.....yet I also believe that I cannot die one day sooner than God intends for me to die....unless I commit suicide.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by tv1a

My mom almost died twice because of this doctrine.
One of my sisters was born at home. Her twin was stillborn at birth. The preacher put the baby in a garbage bag. 3 women died at home because they didn't treated for infection. No doctors at nurses were allowed. After we left the preacher's wife developed the same symptoms. His relative was a nurse at a local hospital. She got treated at home. The preacher declared God's miracle working power without the assistance of a doctor.

I've know similar cases in other areas. Just not as intimately as the one I experienced.

Get ready for 'apostolic' abuse and a challenge to your honesty. Just sayin'.