Essential Goal of Christianity???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

historical/conservative christianity has attempted to achieve righteousness by means of human will and effort instead of pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love.

Pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love is an act of 'human will and effort'.

God's 'goal' is to have a people who express his nature and character for eternity. Man messed up, so therefore God redeems man, transforms him by his power. The transformation is not yet complete (and will not be complete until Judgement Day. And the transformation of man is itself only the beginning of God's purposes for mankind.

God is not interested in any 'evolution of man's consciousness' or any such thing. There is no evolution about it. There is transformation. It is abrupt and sudden - conversion is an abrupt, sudden, 'crisis experience'. Regeneration is an abrupt, sudden 'crisis experience'. Resurrection will most definitely be an 'abrupt, sudden, crisis experience'. And Judgement Day will without question be an abrupt, sudden, crisis experience for all mankind.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love is an act of 'human will and effort'.

God's 'goal' is to have a people who express his nature and character for eternity. Man messed up, so therefore God redeems man, transforms him by his power. The transformation is not yet complete (and will not be complete until Judgement Day. And the transformation of man is itself only the beginning of God's purposes for mankind.

God is not interested in any 'evolution of man's consciousness' or any such thing. There is no evolution about it. There is transformation. It is abrupt and sudden - conversion is an abrupt, sudden, 'crisis experience'. Regeneration is an abrupt, sudden 'crisis experience'. Resurrection will most definitely be an 'abrupt, sudden, crisis experience'. And Judgement Day will without question be an abrupt, sudden, crisis experience for all mankind.

pursuing and allowing can also be construed as the work of god if he is the initiator and motivator. your second paragraph is utter nonsense. paul talks about being babes in christ, growing to the fulness and stature of christ, renewing the mind etc all of these imply a growth in awareness, knowledge, wisdom or evolution of consciousness.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

. your second paragraph is utter nonsense. paul talks about being babes in christ, growing to the fulness and stature of christ, renewing the mind etc all of these imply a growth in awareness, knowledge, wisdom or evolution of consciousness.

So, all humans 'evolve' from child to adult?

Talk about 'utter nonsense'. GROWTH and 'evolution' are not the same thing.

But anyway, I leave you to your 'jibberish'.

[Dedicated Mind]

Man by his wisdom did not know God. Nor does man by his wisdom know what love actually is. Thus the need for Revelation, ie the Word, and the public display of the Word in action in the life of Jesus Christ.

i am not denying the importance of the bible, but man's wisdom did play a role in the writing of the bible. inspired word of god is not the same as dictated word of god. so we are relying in part on man's definition of love when we read the bible with the aid of god. but the essence of love which is selfless giving, is not unique to christianity. there is the yoga of love in hinduism, the path of the bodhistava in budhism. the sufi way of love in islam. a strong ethic of devotion in shinto. i have not studied all of these paths, but i would doubt that you have either, so to claim that the bible has the exclusive claim on the definition of love is a bit premature. love is a universal truth that exists with or without religious exposition.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i am not denying the importance of the bible, but man's wisdom did play a role in the writing of the bible. inspired word of god is not the same as dictated word of god. so we are relying in part on man's definition of love when we read the bible with the aid of god. but the essence of love which is selfless giving, is not unique to christianity. there is the yoga of love in hinduism, the path of the bodhistava in budhism. the sufi way of love in islam. a strong ethic of devotion in shinto. i have not studied all of these paths, but i would doubt that you have either, so to claim that the bible has the exclusive claim on the definition of love is a bit premature. love is a universal truth that exists with or without religious exposition.

That Inspiration is not Dictation does NOT in turn mean it was written by Man's wisdom

BTW the bible does not actually say it was inspired. Rather it was God breathed

Further Paul argues what the preached was NOT man's wisdom

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 But, we speak wisdom among those who are perfect; yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, that come to nothing.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, which God has hidden, predetermining it before the world for our glory;


1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That Inspiration is not Dictation does NOT in turn mean it was written by Man's wisdom

BTW the bible does not actually say it was inspired. Rather it was God breathed

Further Paul argues what the preached was NOT man's wisdom

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 But, we speak wisdom among those who are perfect; yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, that come to nothing.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, which God has hidden, predetermining it before the world for our glory;


1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

so the proverbs do not contain human wisdom but is all spiritual power and revelation? poppycock! you are so bogus prax, you never want to concede a point or admit that someone other than yourself can have any spiritual or doctrinal insight. this post shows how foolish you can be.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i have not studied all of these paths, but i would doubt that you have either,

Shows how little you know concerning me or my "religious" background.

Just so you know, I was raised by a practicing yogin, my uncle was a Nichiren Daishonin (sp?) Buddhist, my mother was a backslidden independent fundamental Baptist but became a 12-stepper before she got the Holy Ghost (after I was long out of the house).

I myself studied all religions and settled on a Chaote version of Hermetic Golden Dawn/O.T.O./TradSat/LHP new age mumbo jumbo before the Lord Jesus Christ got a hold of me and showed me the WORD IS REALITY.

So yes, I HAVE studied zen, Tibetan Buddhism (primarily via the Bardo Thodol), Tantra, rajna yoga, prana yoga, kundalini yoga, Brahmanism, Shivaism, Vaishnaivism (hare krishna, hare krishna, yada yada, hare hare...lol), qabala, Enochian systems, Hermeticism, old mother Bailey, Urantia, Religious Science, Christian Science, Sufism, sunni Islam (in general, nothing extensive), Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism, the Tao, mayombe, and many others.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Shows how little you know concerning me or my "religious" background.

Just so you know, I was raised by a practicing yogin, my uncle was a Nichiren Daishonin (sp?) Buddhist, my mother was a backslidden independent fundamental Baptist but became a 12-stepper before she got the Holy Ghost (after I was long out of the house).

I myself studied all religions and settled on a Chaote version of Hermetic Golden Dawn/O.T.O./TradSat/LHP new age mumbo jumbo before the Lord Jesus Christ got a hold of me and showed me the WORD IS REALITY.

So yes, I HAVE studied zen, Tibetan Buddhism (primarily via the Bardo Thodol), Tantra, rajna yoga, prana yoga, kundalini yoga, Brahmanism, Shivaism, Vaishnaivism (hare krishna, hare krishna, yada yada, hare hare...lol), qabala, Enochian systems, Hermeticism, old mother Bailey, Urantia, Religious Science, Christian Science, Sufism, sunni Islam (in general, nothing extensive), Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism, the Tao, mayombe, and many others.

i don't believe you. anyone who has studied buddhism or hinduism is not going to be so narrow minded about obeying the commandments of God. why don't you express a little of your eastern knowledge. who are some of the main teachers from the east? what is the main insight or essential teaching of hinduism? express a little bit of eastern wisdom. i bet you can't name any insightful teaching from buddhism.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i don't believe you. anyone who has studied buddhism or hinduism is not going to be so narrow minded about obeying the commandments of God. why don't you express a little of your eastern knowledge. who are some of the main teachers from the east? what is the main insight or essential teaching of hinduism? express a little bit of eastern wisdom. i bet you can't name any insightful teaching from buddhism.

What is this, "My Buddha is bigger than your Buddha"?



You ask me why Bodhidharma has no beard. Perhaps you already know the answer.

Take the red pill.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love is an act of 'human will and effort'.

God's 'goal' is to have a people who express his nature and character for eternity. Man messed up, so therefore God redeems man, transforms him by his power. The transformation is not yet complete (and will not be complete until Judgement Day. And the transformation of man is itself only the beginning of God's purposes for mankind.

God is not interested in any 'evolution of man's consciousness' or any such thing. There is no evolution about it. There is transformation. It is abrupt and sudden - conversion is an abrupt, sudden, 'crisis experience'. Regeneration is an abrupt, sudden 'crisis experience'. Resurrection will most definitely be an 'abrupt, sudden, crisis experience'. And Judgement Day will without question be an abrupt, sudden, crisis experience for all mankind.

Transformation seems to be a work in progress, a growing, a learning process, until we become more and more, from faith to faith, from glory to glory more like Christ.