Sinful housework

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

KBTW when Jesus was going through all of that He was considered perfect and without sin, how is it that if, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?

Our Lord Jesus fought His flesh and temptations, conquered and overcamed all the way through to the end, and resisted the devil at every turn. And everytime temptations came, He never gave in. If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect.

And IF we happen to fall, we get back up, repent, and if that we are forgiven, by nature of this not being counted against us, we can go on back to being perfect. Just because you have sinned in the past, does not mean you cannot be perfect.

And you still never gave me your definition of what you think being perfect in God means?

While we're asking questions, let me ask you this... did Jesus ever have to repent? with regards to the context of this statement that you made: "If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect."

This reasoning is not scriptural at all: "If, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?" Again, ask yourself the question... did Jesus ever have to repent? Yes, he was tempted and tried as we are, but the difference is, HE WAS WITHOUT SIN. Jesus never had to repent. We can never say that. We were not born with the nature of God, but He was.

I never saw your question where you asked what I think being perfect in God means. It really doesn't matter what I think anyway, it only matters what the Word says.

But since you asked to know what I think being perfect means, I personally think it means to walk before Him as best I possibly can, allowing the spirit of God to transform me and help me to be an overcomer over the weights of sin that would beset me. It is being transparent to the word of God, and allowing myself to be scrutinized by the Spirit of the Lord to weed out, and root out anything in my life that is not producing fruit of the spirit, so that I can live an overcoming life with the spirit and the mind of Christ reigning in me.

That is my simple definition, perhaps not the best one, but the one I see in scripture.

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

While we're asking questions, let me ask you this... did Jesus ever have to repent? with regards to the context of this statement that you made: "If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect."

This reasoning is not scriptural at all: "If, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?" Again, ask yourself the question... did Jesus ever have to repent? Yes, he was tempted and tried as we are, but the difference is, HE WAS WITHOUT SIN. Jesus never had to repent. We can never say that. We were not born with the nature of God, but He was.

I never saw your question where you asked what I think being perfect in God means. It really doesn't matter what I think anyway, it only matters what the Word says.

But since you asked to know what I think being perfect means, I personally think it means to walk before Him as best I possibly can, allowing the spirit of God to transform me and help me to be an overcomer over the weights of sin that would beset me. It is being transparent
to the word of God, and allowing myself to be scrutinized by the Spirit of the Lord to weed out, and root out anything in my life that is not producing fruit of the spirit, so that I can live an overcoming life with the spirit and the mind of Christ reigning in me.

That is my simple definition, perhaps not the best one, but the one I see in scripture.

I was mainly asking, because you keep saying that we can't be perfect, and was wondering how you defined it since you were saying that. By your definition up there, I don't see why you can't be perfect based on what you said.

And also, do you view perfect as someone who has NEVER sinned? And if someone have sinned, but since coming into the truth of God, they made their way to cease from sinning, and walked and lived their life according to the scriptures, in their heart, words and deeds, do you still not see that person as perfect?

Also you keep talking about once you have obtained perfection, that you can just rest and don't have to worry about anything anymore, and I don't think that I've had said that, nor do I believe that.

I partially define perfection as not sinning, living a holy and righteous life, letting the word govern your actions, your deeds, your words, living a life according to the scriptures, doing what you know to do that is right, not letting sin reign in your body, not giving place to the devil in your heart. Pretty much what MTD said, being pure in your heart through all of this.


I don't view sin as some basic, natural humanity, as if sin is just being human. I view sin as simply disobedience to God.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

I was mainly asking, because you keep saying that we can't be perfect, and was wondering how you defined it since you were saying that. By your definition up there, I don't see why you can't be perfect based on what you said.

And also, do you view perfect as someone who has NEVER sinned? And if someone have sinned, but since coming into the truth of God, they made their way to cease from sinning, and walked and lived their life according to the scriptures, in their heart, words and deeds, do you still not see that person as perfect?

Also you keep talking about once you have obtained perfection, that you can just rest and don't have to worry about anything anymore, and I don't think that I've had said that, nor do I believe that.

I partially define perfection as not sinning, living a holy and righteous life, letting the word govern your actions, your deeds, your words, living a life according to the scriptures, doing what you know to do that is right, not letting sin reign in your body, not giving place to the devil in your heart. Pretty much what MTD said, being pure in your heart through all of this.


I don't view sin as some basic, natural humanity, as if sin is just being human. I view sin as simply disobedience to God.

I believe that the complete work of sanctification or perfection will not be completed until we attain our glorified bodies, but we can live overcoming lives until that day comes.

I agree with your view of sin, that is "disobedience to God." But because we live with this fallen carnal nature, we cannot let our guard down to our flesh nature, but must constantly keep the spotlight of the word of God, and the spirit of God on within our hearts to pinpoint out any disobedience to God that we might have, and because of this we can be victorious.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I believe that the complete work of sanctification or perfection will not be completed until we attain our glorified bodies, but we can live overcoming lives until that day comes.

I agree with your view of sin, that is "disobedience to God." But because we live with this fallen carnal nature, we cannot let our guard down to our flesh nature, but must constantly keep the spotlight of the word of God, and the spirit of God on within our hearts to pinpoint out any disobedience to God that we might have, and because of this we can be victorious.

Why do we have to live with a carnal/fallen nature all of our life?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Luke

Why do we have to live with a carnal/fallen nature all of our life?

Ask Jesus. Ask Paul. I don't know. I didn't make the rule book.

Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

The spirit was given to us to mortify the deeds of the body, so obviously something is not completely, totally dead. However, if the Spirit reigns in our life, the law of sin doesn't, and we can live above recurrent fallen sin, but we must be aware of the attacks of our flesh nature or satan to try to make us stumble and fall.... and so therefore we are given the Spirit to "mortify the deeds of the body" and by doing so, we shall live.

Paul also says this,

Romans 7:24-25 "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin."

Our minds, spirit and soul serve the Lord, while our flesh nature remains in the hold of sin, and it is a warfare, but through the spirit of Jesus Christ, we can mortify the deeds of the body, and continue serving the law of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Ask Jesus. Ask Paul. I don't know. I didn't make the rule book.

Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

The spirit was given to us to mortify the deeds of the body, so obviously something is not completely, totally dead. However, if the Spirit reigns in our life, the law of sin doesn't, and we can live above recurrent fallen sin, but we must be aware of the attacks of our flesh nature or satan to try to make us stumble and fall.... and so therefore we are given the Spirit to "mortify the deeds of the body" and by doing so, we shall live.

Paul also says this,

Romans 7:24-25 "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin."

Our minds, spirit and soul serve the Lord, while our flesh nature remains in the hold of sin, and it is a warfare, but through the spirit of Jesus Christ, we can mortify the deeds of the body, and continue serving the law of God.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Ask Jesus. Ask Paul. I don't know. I didn't make the rule book.

Romans 8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

The spirit was given to us to mortify the deeds of the body, so obviously something is not completely, totally dead. However, if the Spirit reigns in our life, the law of sin doesn't, and we can live above recurrent fallen sin, but we must be aware of the attacks of our flesh nature or satan to try to make us stumble and fall.... and so therefore we are given the Spirit to "mortify the deeds of the body" and by doing so, we shall live.

I love that verse like many other verses in the bible it does not mean a daily death but a one time event. Look at the meaning of the word mortify:

Thayer's dictionary G2289

I.to put to death
II.metaph.

A.to make to die i.e. destroy, render extinct

B.by death to be liberated from the bond of anything, literally to be made dead in relation to (something)

There is no daily death here rather. I agree that a christian still has a sinful nature but that same christian needs to be sanctified but when that christian gets sanctified they do not have a carnal nature.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Paul also says this,

Romans 7:24-25 "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin."

Our minds, spirit and soul serve the Lord, while our flesh nature remains in the hold of sin, and it is a warfare, but through the spirit of Jesus Christ, we can mortify the deeds of the body, and continue serving the law of God.

I agree that after we are saved and before we are sanctified we are in a Romans 7 experience but let a man/woman get snactified and they will move from a Romans 7 experience to a Romans 8 experience( GLORY). They will go from groaning Romans 7:25 to shouting Romans 8:2!!!!!

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Thayer's dictionary G1659

I.to make free

II.set at liberty: from the dominion of sin


Strong's dictionary G1659

From G1658; to liberate, that is, (figuratively) to exempt (from moral,
ceremonial or mortal liability): -deliver, make free.


In chapter 8 I am freed and liberated from what had me bound in chapter 7. (GLORY)

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Luke

I love that verse like many other verses in the bible it does not mean a daily death but a one time event. Look at the meaning of the word mortify:

Thayer's dictionary G2289

I.to put to death
II.metaph.

A.to make to die i.e. destroy, render extinct

B.by death to be liberated from the bond of anything, literally to be made dead in relation to (something)

There is no daily death here rather. I agree that a christian still has a sinful nature but that same christian needs to be sanctified but when that christian gets sanctified they do not have a carnal nature.

The scripture says "mortify the DEEDS of the body".... indicating that there is more than one event, the word "deeds" is plural... meaning that it is not a one-time event to take it all out, but an event that can occur multiple times.

I do believe we can win battles... but we haven't yet won the war against our carnal nature.

Here is a pictorial illustration for my point. A country goes to war against another country, and captives are taken. These captives are now subject to the will of the captors. However, while they are captive, they are not submitted, and completely won over to their captors. They obey most of the time, but are constantly looking for a way of escape. They may be obedient, but not submissive. At any given moment, they are looking for a way to rebel, to uprise, and to escape their captivity.

Looking at this allegory, and putting our flesh and spirit into the equation.... Once the Spirit of Christ comes into our heart, the flesh is no longer reigning. It is in remission, or in obedience to the spirit. But that same flesh is not submitted. It is constantly looking for areas and ways to rise up, rebel, and expose itself, to regain its freedom.

That is why Paul says we must "mortify the deeds of the body", we must constantly be on guard against its attack, even though yes, the spirit is reigning. The flesh is captive, and subdued, but it is not destroyed. The flesh has not yet been put to death, which is an event that will take place upon the time we die, or attain our glorified bodies.

As I was praying this morning, this is how the Lord showed it to me, to best describe the battle, and the war that wages in us.

As the spirit reigns, we can lead overcoming, victorious, glorious Romans 8 power-filled lives, but we cannot let down our guard against the enemy of our flesh that has not yet been destroyed... subdued yes... destroyed no.

We have just been given the *earnest* of our inheritance, and its full reward will not become ours until we have completely overcome in the day that we receive our glorified bodies. That is our hope. That is why we fight the fight of faith.