Sinful housework

Luke · #1 12-19-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

What is God with regards to His very substance? Love. Living love. And that is defined as being "holy". Love is holiness. And holiness is loving. Holiness has nothing to do with rules. It has to do with one's state of being. Are they loving or not? To love is to be holy. For to love is to be like God. No man can say he loves God and fail to love others. However, one can keep any list of standards and fail to love others.

Gad at His very nature is Holy. His love along with all of His other attributes flow and stem from His love.

Aquila · #2 12-19-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Gad at His very nature is Holy. His love along with all of His other attributes flow and stem from His love.

I think it's important to emphasize that God doesn't love... He is love.

Luke · #3 12-19-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it's important to emphasize that God doesn't love... He is love.

Iagree God is Love but he is also Justice and Rightous and Omnipotent and Omniscence and Sovereign and Merciful, Gracious but all of these things are equal attributes that flow from His nature which is holiness

Aquila · #4 12-20-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Iagree God is Love but he is also Justice and Rightous and Omnipotent and Omniscence and Sovereign and Merciful, Gracious but all of these things are equal attributes that flow from His nature which is holiness

I don't think you're understanding exactly what I'm saying.

When it comes to God, love isn't an "equal attribute" to other attributes. God "is" love. Love is His very substance. We can say that God is "merciful", but we cannot say that God is mercy. We can say that God is "just", but we can't say that God is justice. We can even say that God is "holy", but we can't say that God is holiness.

As human beings, we struggle with properly understanding this. Because to us love is an attribute that emanates from the soul. However, when it comes to real divine love, it's source is always God. It flows through us. Therefore, with regards to mankind, it is what is known as a communicable attribute of God.

When this is properly understood, God's Omniscience, Sovereignty, Mercy, Grace, Justice, Holiness, etc. all come into proper ontological context. Love is the ocean frome which these streams flow. Love isn't just another stream.

Now, where in SCRIPTURE does it say that God's nature is "holiness"??? God is love, therefore His nature is "loving". All attribues that flow from Him are then to be viewed as expressions of Him loving us. While God speaks anthropomorphically about "hating" various things, the ontological understanding of God is that it is impossible for God to truly "hate". When God speaks of hating something over something else, God is expressing desire. Out of His love, God desires righteousness and goodness. Why? Because those things are beneficial to the creation He dearly loves. Thus God does not desire sin and wickeness. In this God "hates". So, just as God's love is not our kind of love (ours is quite shallow and conditional)... God's hatred is not our kind of hatred (ours is rather petty and judgmental).

Luke · #5 12-20-2013, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't think you're understanding exactly what I'm saying.

When it comes to God, love isn't an "equal attribute" to other attributes. God "is" love. Love is His very substance. We can say that God is "merciful", but we cannot say that God is mercy. We can say that God is "just", but we can't say that God is justice. When can even say that God is "holy", but we can't say that God is holiness.

As human beings, we struggle with properly understanding this. Because to us love is an attribute that emanates from the soul. However, when it comes to real divine love, it's source is always God. It flows through us. Therefore, with regards to mankind, it is what is known as a communicable attribute of God.

When this is properly understood God's Omniscience, Sovereignty, Mercy, Grace, Justice, Holiness, etc. all come into proper ontological context. Love is the ocean frome which these streams flow. Love isn't just another stream.

Now, where in SCRIPTURE does it say that God's nature is "holiness"??? God is love, therefore His nature is "loving". All attribues that flow from Him are then to be viewed as expressions of Him loving us. While God speaks anthropomorphically about "hating" various things, the ontological understanding of God is that it is impossible for God to truly "hate". When God speaks of hating something over something else, God is expressing desire. Out of His love, God desires righteousness and goodness. Why? Because those things are beneficial to the creation He dearly loves. Thus God does not desire sin and wickeness. In this God "hates". So, just as God's love truly exceeds our kind of love... God's hatred is not our kind of hatred.

Where does the Bible say that the nature of God is love? The Bible multiple times clearly says that God is Holy and even puts it forth as a state a state of being:

1 Peter 1:15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Notice in the following scripture which to as far as i can think of is the only one that specificly mentions the divine nature (I could be wrong on that). Notice what the divine nature is contrasted with.
2 Peter 1: 4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Notice it is contrasted with sinfulnes not hatred but rather filth.

Also as a oneness believer How can you deny that His nature is Holy when one of His manifestations is the HOLY GHOST not the Love Ghost? Also all in the Old Testament one of the more common terms for God used by the prophets was The Holy One of Israel not the loving One of Israel.

Aquila · #6 12-20-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Where does the Bible say that the nature of God is love?

Luke... I know that this might be a little alien to you. So, slow down and try to think on an ontological level.

If God "is" love... the nature of love is the only proper explaination of His nature. Thus, God is loving not because God has love as an attribute... but because God is love. Since God "is" love, God cannot be anything else but loving. As a result, God's very nature is loving on account of His very substance being love.

Quote:

The Bible multiple times clearly says that God is Holy and even puts it forth as a state a state of being:

1 Peter 1:15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Notice in the following scripture which to as far as i can think of is the only one that specificly mentions the divine nature (I could be wrong on that). Notice what the divine nature is contrasted with.

2 Peter 1: 4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Notice it is contrasted with sinfulnes not hatred but rather filth.

Yes, the Bible states that God is holy. But it doesn't say that God is "holiness". Therefore "holiness" is an attribute, not an element of nature. God is holy on account of being love and demonstrating that love through a loving nature. Being love, God has no petty earthlike hatreds, prejudices, or biases. Nor is there any deceit or darkness in Him at all. Thus, holiness is an attribute of one who is pure love by substance expressed through a loving by nature.

Let's look at this text...

2 Peter 1: 4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What is the opposite of "lust"? Lust is "selfish desire" be it sexual, financial, materalistic, etc. The opposite of "lust" is love... "selfless desire". In this, one is "holy". Sound familiar? Remember the basis of the entire law? Love God with all one's being... and demonstrate that love by loving others as yourself. In loving... we are like God. Therefore, in loving both God and others selflessly we are... holy.

Quote:

Also as a oneness believer How can you deny that His nature is Holy when one of His manifestations is the HOLY GHOST not the Love Ghost? Also all in the Old Testament one of the more common terms for God used by the prophets was The Holy One of Israel not the loving One of Israel.

Ah, question my sincerety as a oneness believer. That's not cool brother Luke.

Try to understand me. I don't demand that you agree. I demand nothing of you. I simply want to share my perspective. I pray that you seek to understand my perspective better, even if you don't agree entirely. Love makes no demand of you, but rather only leaves you to your own free will to consider the implications of all things and how they indeed serve you and your effort to progress into Christlikeness.

I am not saying that God is not "holy". I'm simply defining that holiness on account of His substance. Being holy is an attribute of God. Remember... God is holy... but God is not holiness. God is love. Thus the holiness possessed by God is an expression of God being love. Hardness isn't holiness. Standards aren't holiness. Wearing tin foil hats or anything else isn't holiness. What is holiness? God-likeness. What is God? Love. Therefore, when one is loving they are expressing God's kind of holiness. Hense the two laws upon which the very heart and intent of every law of the Bible... Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength...And love your neighbour as yourself... come into play. Now, have you ever noticed how these commandments are said to be two, but the second is "like unto" the first? Also, have you ever noticed in Scripture how references to these commandments is often singular, they being expressed as a "commandment"? This is because the first is fulfilled by the second. Thus, God desires this one thing of us... that we love Him by loving others as ourselves. That's what He desires. When we love others as ourselves... we demonstrate our love for Him. Thus, one cannot hate another and say they love God (sound familiar?). Because in not loving another... they are failing to demonstrate their love for God... no matter what they are wearing or what their silly little religious rules are.

When we desire to be filled with God, and we are indeed filled with God, we will be filled with... love.

Luke · #7 12-20-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ah, question my sincerety as a oneness believer. That's not cool brother Luke.

I want to respond to this by itself before i respond to the rest of the post. I really had no intetnion to call into question your belief as a oneness pentecostal at all. I apologize if it came across that way it was not my intent to be offensive rather it was an honest question not of tyou being oness but how you reconciled the two? Again i apologize for the offence.