Sinful housework

n david · #1 12-23-2013, 10:18 AM

I'm with Luke on this. God is, at the core, at His essence, Holy. Yes, God is love, but in the end God's holiness will be greater than His love. If not, love wins and no one goes to hell.

Aquila · #2 12-23-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

I'm with Luke on this. God is, at the core, at His essence, Holy. Yes, God is love, but in the end God's holiness will be greater than His love. If not, love wins and no one goes to hell.

Love allows freedom. Freedom to chose. Therefore, if a soul choses Hell over God... love would never violate that choice. Mankind, chose sin. Therefore, love must allow mankind to grapple with that reality. Love also opens a door of escape to mankind through evangelism.

Again, the Bible says that "God is love". Now, God is holy. But holiness isn't some metaphysical state of purity. Holiness simply means, separate. Distinct from everything else. God is holy. God is holy regarding His love, which is infinite. God is holy with regards to His omniscience. God is holy with regards to His omnipotence. God is holy with regards to His oneness. God is holy. But God isn't holiness. God is love.

n david · #3 12-23-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again, the Bible says that "God is love". Now, God is holy. But holiness isn't some metaphysical state of purity. Holiness simply means, separate. Distinct from everything else. God is holy. God is holy regarding His love, which is infinite. God is holy with regards to His omniscience. God is holy with regards to His omnipotence. God is holy with regards to His oneness. God is holy. But God isn't holiness. God is love.

You keep changing words from "Holy" to "Holiness," which IMO changes the meaning from an absolute to an attribute. God is Holy - an absolute. He is holy in justice. He is holy in love. He is altogether holy. Through that, His holiness is shown. Partly semantics, but I believe there to be a difference with you substituting an attribute for the absolute.

Quote:

“Holiness” is derived from the same root word in both the Hebrew and the Greek; “holy, hallowed, holiness, consecrate, saint, sanctify, and sanctification.” While the basic idea of the word is the same, there really is some variant in the meaning of the word “Holy.”

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God said "I AM Holy." Seven times in the Bible it's written that God is holy. Only twice do you find where it's written He is love.

RC Sproul said it well:

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“On a handful of occasions the Bible repeats something to the third degree. To mention something three times is to elevate it to the superlative degree, to attach to it emphasis of super importance…Only once in sacred Scripture is an attribute of God elevated to the third degree. Only once is a characteristic of God mentioned three times in succession. The Bible says that God is holy, holy, holy. Not that He is merely holy, or even holy, holy. He is holy, holy, holy. The Bible never says that God is love, love, love, or mercy, mercy, mercy, or wrath, wrath, wrath, or justice, justice, justice. It does say that He is holy, holy, holy, the whole earth is full of His glory.”21

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Aquila · #4 12-23-2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

You keep changing words from "Holy" to "Holiness," which IMO changes the meaning from an absolute to an attribute. God is Holy - an absolute. He is holy in justice. He is holy in love. He is altogether holy. Through that, His holiness is shown. Partly semantics, but I believe there to be a difference with you substituting an attribute for the absolute.

Source Link

God said "I AM Holy." Seven times in the Bible it's written that God is holy. Only twice do you find where it's written He is love.

RC Sproul said it well:

Source Link

To say that God is holy is like saying that God is loving. Both are absolutely true. However, while God is both holy and loving, God is not holiness. Scripture states that God is love. Living love. It is that living love (who is personified in the very eternal being of God) that is holy.

Aquila · #5 12-23-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

God said "I AM Holy." Seven times in the Bible it's written that God is holy. Only twice do you find where it's written He is love.

God describes Himself as being "holy". God also describes Himself as being "just". Is God holiness personified or justice personified? Neither. Scripture speaks ontologically that God is love. God is love personified. Now, He is definitely both holy and just. But the very essence of His substance is love. Thus we can conclude that any action God takes in relation to His being holy or in relation to Him being just is... predicated upon love. If He were holiness, every action would be predicated upon that... not love. If he were justice, every action would demand pure justice without exception. But since God IS love... all actions wherein various attributes come into play can be said to be rooted in the very essence of His substance... love.

As a result, even the most fearsome of judgment is an expression of God's love... for He is love. Being love, it can be no other way.

n david · #6 12-23-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

To say that God is holy is like saying that God is loving. Both are absolutely true. However, while God is both holy and loving, God is not holiness. Scripture states that God is love. Living love. It is that living love (who is personified in the very eternal being of God) that is holy.

There you go again.

Holiness is the product of being holy, it is not the same. God is holy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

God describes Himself as being "holy". God also describes Himself as being "just". Is God holiness personified or justice personified? Neither. Scripture speaks ontologically that God is love. God is love personified. Now, He is definitely both holy and just. But the very essence of His substance is love. Thus we can conclude that any action God takes in relation to His being holy or in relation to Him being just is... predicated upon love. If He were holiness, every action would be predicated upon that... not love. If he were justice, every action would demand pure justice without exception. But since God IS love... all actions wherein various attributes come into play can be said to be rooted in the very essence of His substance... love.

As a result, even the most fearsome of judgment is an expression of God's love... for He is love. Being love, it can be no other way.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe God's absolute nature is what it says over and over in the Bible, that He is holy. You believe that God is love. You ignore several scriptures which state "I AM holy," yet cling to 1 John 4:8 where it says "God is love."

BTW, nowhere in scripture does God say "I am love," but it is written, "I am holy."

Aquila · #7 12-23-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

There you go again.

Holiness is the product of being holy, it is not the same. God is holy.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe God's absolute nature is what it says over and over in the Bible, that He is holy. You believe that God is love. You ignore several scriptures which state "I AM holy," yet cling to 1 John 4:8 where it says "God is love."

BTW, nowhere in scripture does God say "I am love," but it is written, "I am holy."

Nope. You don't get it. lol

Saying, "I am holy", is like saying, "I am loving." It speaks of an attribute. Now, if God said, "I am holiness", then it would be like saying, "I am love." Love is loving. Holiness is holy. Thus, the Word states that God is holy... but it doesn't say that the very essence of God's substance is "holiness". It states that the very essence of God's substance is love. God IS love.

n david · #8 12-23-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Saying, "I am holy", is like saying, "I am loving." It speaks of an attribute. Now, if God said, "I am holiness", then it would be like saying, "I am love." Love is loving. Holiness is holy. Thus, the Word states that God is holy... but it doesn't say that the very essence of God's substance is "holiness". It states that the very essence of God's substance is love. God IS love.

That's not how it's defined, but okay. Holiness is "the quality or state of being holy" - literal definition; that makes holiness the attribute, not holy.

We're just going around in circles.