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  #1  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:43 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

I am quite suspicious of this.

The world does not play fair and my first inclination is that this will turn into a hit piece on Christianity.

The debate rules and who would be the judges make a great difference in a debate.

I hope time does not prove me right, but I highly suspect a trap in here somehow.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:11 AM
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

I went to the creation museum about two years ago it was awesome. I hold to a a literal interpretation of the first two chapters of gen.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:53 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I went to the creation museum about two years ago it was awesome. I hold to a a literal interpretation of the first two chapters of gen.
As do I. 6 unspecified periods of time. There was no 24 hr day until after creation.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:21 PM
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I went to the creation museum about two years ago it was awesome. I hold to a a literal interpretation of the first two chapters of gen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
As do I. 6 unspecified periods of time. There was no 24 hr day until after creation.
It's strange that neither of you notice the most glaring inconsistency that genesis 1 has with reality.

Day and night are phenomenon which require a sun and satellite (ie earth). We have day and night on earth solely because of the light from the sun and the rotating of planet earth. In genesis 1 God creates the sun a full 3 or 4 days after he creates day and night. No matter what literal interpretation you adopt for genesis 1 you will never be able to explain this discrepancy of having day and night without having a sun.

So if you adopt any literal reading Genesis 1 you do so at the cost of making it possible for day and night to occur without the sun... and that's just absurd.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:26 AM
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
It's strange that neither of you notice the most glaring inconsistency that genesis 1 has with reality.

Day and night are phenomenon which require a sun and satellite (ie earth). We have day and night on earth solely because of the light from the sun and the rotating of planet earth. In genesis 1 God creates the sun a full 3 or 4 days after he creates day and night. No matter what literal interpretation you adopt for genesis 1 you will never be able to explain this discrepancy of having day and night without having a sun.

So if you adopt any literal reading Genesis 1 you do so at the cost of making it possible for day and night to occur without the sun... and that's just absurd.
No problem here since all of the laws of nature come from God (including the twenty four hour day and the rotation of the earth around the sun) He has the ability to suspend or tweak in any way He chooses. If God stood up in timeless eternity and called all of the world into existence from nothing (as we read in Gen 1:1) the rest is easy.

If you think my answer is faulty or to simplistic or screams of to dauphin the unknown you should hear the naturalistic evolutionist explain how nothing created everything and how non-life made life (both of which positions are absurd according to observable science)
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:52 AM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
It's strange that neither of you notice the most glaring inconsistency that genesis 1 has with reality. Day and night are phenomenon which require a sun and satellite (ie earth). We have day and night on earth solely because of the light from the sun and the rotating of planet earth. In genesis 1 God creates the sun a full 3 or 4 days after he creates day and night. No matter what literal interpretation you adopt for genesis 1 you will never be able to explain this discrepancy of having day and night without having a sun. So if you adopt any literal reading Genesis 1 you do so at the cost of making it possible for day and night to occur without the sun... and that's just absurd.
Well, light being created before a sun is not an issue to me, but this is. This seems to say that the 24 hour day was before the creation of the sun.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I never noticed (until now) that every day of creation is followed with "And the evening and the morning were the [insert numerical value] day. "
So, even though "day" can mean an unspecified amount of time, the text (in English) does not allow us to make that conclusion.

Hmm...
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:11 PM
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Well, light being created before a sun is not an issue to me, but this is. This seems to say that the 24 hour day was before the creation of the sun.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I never noticed (until now) that every day of creation is followed with "And the evening and the morning were the [insert numerical value] day. "
So, even though "day" can mean an unspecified amount of time, the text (in English) does not allow us to make that conclusion.

Hmm...
So you don't have a problem with there being evenings and mornings without the sun?
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:12 AM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
So you don't have a problem with there being evenings and mornings without the sun?
No. God separated light from darkness. No sun needed.

Though an earth without form and void. That sounds evolutionary.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2014, 05:48 PM
Jason B Jason B is offline
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I never noticed (until now) that every day of creation is followed with "And the evening and the morning were the [insert numerical value] day. "
So, even though "day" can mean an unspecified amount of time, the text (in English) does not allow us to make that conclusion.
I think the more we look at Genesis there is no other good hermeneutic alternative except that the days are literal "24 hour" days, for precisely the same reasons you list.
1)Day is defined in Genesis 1 as consisting of light and darkness (evening and morning)
2)The days in Genesis are given a numerical value, further strengthening the argument for literal days
in addition to this
3)Every time the creation account is referred to in scripture, it is referred to as a literal historical event. Granted there are times in which spiritual lessons are taught from Genesis 1 (such as 2 Corinthians 4:6).
4)Jesus himself referred to the creation account as literal, as did all NT writers, and traced the "beginning" back to the creation week, in particular day 6 (Mark 10:6). This should have some serious weight if Jesus is who we believe Him to be, he certainly could have clarified the issue:

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

5)IF God is indeed infinite in power and wisdom, is eternal, and time itself is simply a creation of His, why do we think 6 days is too brief a time period for Him to create the universe? Especially if His Word alone is powerful enough to speak things into existence (Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6)? He didn't need 6 days, he didn't even need 1 hour. He is mighty and able to do anything He wants as He wants. And will do so again in when he creates all things anew, which is an instantaneous act, not an act which takes hundreds, thousands, or millions of years. Beyond all of this, the only scripture that we have, which is said to come directly from the hand of God, the scripture engraved on the tablets given to Moses, contains an first hand account of creation given by God himself:

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and ALL that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I think there are a lot of good reasons to affirm the literal account of Genesis, especially if someone affirms the inspiration and authority of the scriptures (and ESPECIALLY so if they affirm the inerrancy of the scriptures). IF you notice the large majority of arguments made by theistic evolutionists/progressive creationists ALWAYS center around and are based on scientific theories, such as red shift, c-14 dating, the geological column, etc. They do not make their case from the scripture, they spend their whole time trying to explain away scriptures which plainly refute their conclusions in much the same way the universalist will attempt to explain away/redefine scriptures such as Matthew 25:41. Its the same tactic, just another subject. The whole argument always comes back to the inspiration, inerrancy, and authority of the Word of God. And as always, the Word of God is assailed generation by generation, and continually emerges triumphant. If evolution was true, the Scopes monkey trial of the 1920's would have been the final nail in the coffin. Instead, the more technologically advanced we become, and the things that can be tested by true science (such as DNA) continually point toward an all wise designer.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2014, 01:35 AM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Creation vs. Evolution Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Well, light being created before a sun is not an issue to me, but this is. This seems to say that the 24 hour day was before the creation of the sun.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I never noticed (until now) that every day of creation is followed with "And the evening and the morning were the [insert numerical value] day. "
So, even though "day" can mean an unspecified amount of time, the text (in English) does not allow us to make that conclusion.

Hmm...
The "evening and morning" were markers of a 24 hour period. We only need a sun and moon to notice this 24 hour period visually. However if we were on the Star Trek Enterprise, we'd still count off hours without a sun and moon. We might even still count off the Evening shift or morning shift and even wakeup and have a morning coffee.
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