Facade & Pharisees in the church

[SiblingRevelry]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

We are commanded not to keep company with fornicators. No communion/fellowship is allowed. Fornication, from the Greek word porne means sexual immorality of any sort. Homosexuality, as an aberrant sexuality, is illicit and immoral. There is wisdom in not spending time with people "in church" who are actively living such a lifestyle.

They already stand condemned. Having a youth leader separate some young people from them isn't wrong.

Then I guess Jesus would be in big, big trouble, because he sat and ate with tax collectors and other notorious sinners. (Mark 2:15-17, Matthew 9:10-12, Luke 5:29-31)

15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

That Jesus! He really offended the Pharisees!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by SiblingRevelry

Then I guess Jesus would be in big, big trouble, because he sat and ate with tax collectors and other notorious sinners. (Mark 2:15-17, Matthew 9:10-12, Luke 5:29-31)



That Jesus! He really offended the Pharisees!

Haven't read 1 Corinthians 5 recently, I presume? Note what I said. I said "in church".

I didn't say out of church, for then, as Paul wrote, we would have to leave the world entirely.

[MissBlogger201]

Oh my goodness I'm tired of this I simply wanted to write something about what I seen and you are coming back at me like I don't know anything about the church like I have not been in church my whole life. I know we need to separate ourselves from the world I know that we need to keep our young people away from people that would be harmful, I know all this ok. I'm not trying to be mean to you but I need you to understand that I understand how this works. And no matter what you say it's was still wrong to have done that to those young people at that conference, and maybe they should be grown up already to have decided fr themselves if they needed to stay away from them.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by MissBlogger201

Oh my goodness I'm tired of this I simply wanted to write something about what I seen and you are coming back at me like I don't know anything about the church like I have not been in church my whole life. I know we need to separate ourselves from the world I know that we need to keep our young people away from people that would be harmful, I know all this ok. I'm not trying to be mean to you but I

Don't get to excited!
You are on the Apostolic Friends Forum…..lol.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by MissBlogger201

Oh my goodness I'm tired of this I simply wanted to write something about what I seen and you are coming back at me like I don't know anything about the church like I have not been in church my whole life. I know we need to separate ourselves from the world I know that we need to keep our young people away from people that would be harmful, I know all this ok. I'm not trying to be mean to you but I need you to understand that I understand how this works. And no matter what you say it's was still wrong to have done that to those young people at that conference, and maybe they should be grown up already to have decided fr themselves if they needed to stay away from them.

MissBlogger,

The difference between posting on a blog and posting on a forum is that a blog is mostly static and a forum is truly interactive. People can comment on a blog, if you have comments enabled, but you don't really have to respond. On a forum, on the other hand, all posts/threads are intended to be discussion starters. If you post or comment, you need to be prepared for the discussion that follows. It's the nature of the beast.

On the bright side, it's the very best way to get to the heart of a matter and sort something out. Having multiple people weigh in with opinions and questions can help you refine your own ideas and opinions and walk away with a clear plan of action or, at the very least, the issue settled in your mind.

Per your experience: There are nice people who are sinners and there are so-called Christians who aren't very nice. Neither of those groups of people should be allowed to affect your relationship with God or your relationship with the truly Christlike people in your life. There are people who would take an experience like that and claim that the church is full of hypocrites and avoid it completely. However, that's damaging in the longterm, and IMO, it's in opposition to what God wants for your life and for His church.

I came across a meme the other day that expressed this idea and I posted it on my facebook page:

gym hypocrites.jpg


One of my friends quickly commented, and prompted me to rethink the whole premise behind the meme. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that the principle still holds true.

Yes, it's true that I wouldn't personally hire a trainer who was out of shape--I want someone to train me who has already done the work to get themselves in shape and really knows what they're doing and what they're talking about. On the FLIP side, what the meme is actually referencing holds true. There are people at my gym who are in shape and those who are struggling. There are people who lift weights all the time and they have big muscles, but put them on the elliptical for endurance or cardio and they would collapse. Then there are cross trainers who are very fit overall, but they wouldn't make it in a weight-lifting competition. There are the people who come about once a month and then you don't see them again for awhile.

The POINT is, I don't go around trying to *fix* the problems in each person at the gym. I don't even worry about their problems. I'm there 3-5 times a week to fix ME. I don't avoid the gym because there are people there who either are there for the wrong reasons or who aren't really doing what they should be doing. The same goes for church. I don't skip church because there are people who are there who aren't doing what they should be doing. I don't skip church because some people are neglecting certain areas of their lives. I don't skip church because some people only come once a month, or even once a year. Attending church (read: assembling with other believers) is biblical, and therefore intertwined with my relationship with God, so to some extent I have to learn to do two things:

1. Keep that practice out of honor for God and somewhat independently of all the other people, and

2. Learn to respect other people who aren't there yet. I haven't arrived at perfection, so it's wrong for me to be terribly critical of all the other people who haven't arrived either. Let them work out their own salvation and don't worry if they're doing it wrong. Be at church for you and God.

Oh, here's a #3: Be humble about your own imperfections. You can be kind to others and respectful more easily if you carry around the humility that says, "I'm not perfect, so I don't expect any of you to be perfect, either."

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

MissBlogger,

The difference between posting on a blog and posting on a forum is that a blog is mostly static and a forum is truly interactive. People can comment on a blog, if you have comments enabled, but you don't really have to respond. On a forum, on the other hand, all posts/threads are intended to be discussion starters. If you post or comment, you need to be prepared for the discussion that follows. It's the nature of the beast.

On the bright side, it's the very best way to get to the heart of a matter and sort something out. Having multiple people weigh in with opinions and questions can help you refine your own ideas and opinions and walk away with a clear plan of action or, at the very least, the issue settled in your mind.

Per your experience: There are nice people who are sinners and there are so-called Christians who aren't very nice. Neither of those groups of people should be allowed to affect your relationship with God or your relationship with the truly Christlike people in your life. There are people who would take an experience like that and claim that the church is full of hypocrites and avoid it completely. However, that's damaging in the longterm, and IMO, it's in opposition to what God wants for your life and for His church.

I came across a meme the other day that expressed this idea and I posted it on my facebook page:

Attachment 4396


One of my friends quickly commented, and prompted me to rethink the whole premise behind the meme. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that the principle still holds true.

Yes, it's true that I wouldn't personally hire a trainer who was out of shape--I want someone to train me who has already done the work to get themselves in shape and really knows what they're doing and what they're talking about. On the FLIP side, what the meme is actually referencing holds true. There are people at my gym who are in shape and those who are struggling. There are people who lift weights all the time and they have big muscles, but put them on the elliptical for endurance or cardio and they would collapse. Then there are cross trainers who are very fit overall, but they wouldn't make it in a weight-lifting competition. There are the people who come about once a month and then you don't see them again for awhile.

The POINT is, I don't go around trying to *fix* the problems in each person at the gym. I don't even worry about their problems. I'm there 3-5 times a week to fix ME. I don't avoid the gym because there are people there who either are there for the wrong reasons or who aren't really doing what they should be doing. The same goes for church. I don't skip church because there are people who are there who aren't doing what they should be doing. I don't skip church because some people are neglecting certain areas of their lives. I don't skip church because some people only come once a month, or even once a year. Attending church (read: assembling with other believers) is biblical, and therefore intertwined with my relationship with God, so to some extent I have to learn to do two things:

1. Keep that practice out of honor for God and somewhat independently of all the other people, and

2. Learn to respect other people who aren't there yet. I haven't arrived at perfection, so it's wrong for me to be terribly critical of all the other people who haven't arrived either. Let them work out their own salvation and don't worry if they're doing it wrong. Be at church for you and God.

Oh, here's a #3: Be humble about your own imperfections. You can be kind to others and respectful more easily if you carry around the humility that says, "I'm not perfect, so I don't expect any of you to be perfect, either."

Very good. I agree.

[MissBlogger201]

I appreciate your advice but I'm not calling myself perfect in any way or not going to church because of people that are not faithful that would be ridiculous.
And I am a humble person. And I guess it hurt so bad to see people treated like that is because I know the love of God and it was wrong to do so.
And I don't treat people different because they may have more wrong than others or may not look like they have it all together, no one does.

[MissBlogger201]

Exactly!

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by MissBlogger201

Exactly!

Yes, exactly. So….there you go.

But you DID say you were apostolic ALL your life!
You can't deny that.

[Praxeas]

"All my life" is an expression