Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

[Michael The Disciple]

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

Your getting there Michael, just keep and open mind, and the Spirit will guide you......! LOL

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

Jesus, John, Jude, and Peter talk about it for the sinner and they don't seem to have got the memo that it is only temporary.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Luke

Jesus, John, Jude, and Peter talk about it for the sinner and they don't seem to have got the memo that it is only temporary.

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Carl

Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

And if thy hand offend thee cut it off:it is better for thee to enter into life maimed than having two hands to go into hell into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED: Where their worm dieth not and the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. Mark 9:43-44

Can we find an Old Testament reference for this?
If so we can understand his meaning.

The reference here goes back to Isaiah 66.

For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before me saith the Lord so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before me saith the Lord.
And they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that have TRANSGRESSED against me: for their worm shall not die neither shall their FIRE BE QUENCHED. And they shall be an abhoring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:22-24

This is the ONLY OTHER REFERENCE POINT for hell that I know of in the Old Testament.

The hell Yeshua speaks of in Mark 9 is GEHENNA. This was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem.

All of the trash as well as bodies of criminals were thrown into it.
In course of time the Jews connected Gehenna with the FIRE OVEN of MALACHI.
The CARCASSES Isaiah speaks of are DEAD BODIES! A CARCASSE is the remains of a dead body.

People living in the coming kingdom will periodically look out on this sight of the TRANSGRESSORS who had to be destroyed as a solemn warning against sin.

The worm that dieth not is simply showing worms can live off CARCASSES.
Let us look at the phrase FIRE SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED in biblical context.

But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day and not to bear a burden even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof and it shall DEVOUR the palaces of Jerusalem and IT SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED. Jer.17:27

The Chaldeans came and burned the city. Jer.39:8
Is that unquenchable FIRE still burning today?

The FIRE THAT SHALL NOT BE QUENCED means NOTHING can put it out.
But when it finishes the job God gives it to do it will go out of itself.

So again this biblical reference about hell teaches us of the DESTRUCTION of the wicked.
Their CARCASSES shall remain.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Carl

Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

Also consider that Hebrew word that we derive the meaning of "forever" from.

Case in point.

Jonah 2:1-6

2:1 Then Jonah prayed to Yahweh, his God, out of the fish’s belly. 2:2 He said,
“I called because of my affliction to Yahweh. He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried. You heard my voice. 2:3 For you threw me into the depths, in the heart of the seas. The flood was all around me. All your waves and your billows passed over me. 2:4 I said, ‘I have been banished from your sight; yet I will look again toward your holy temple.’ 2:5 The waters surrounded me, even to the soul. The deep was around me. The weeds were wrapped around my head. 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever: yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God.

Verse 2 Jonah cries out from Sheol. That is "Hell" in the KJV.

Verse 6 he says he was there FOREVER!

And yet we have it on the authority of Yeshua Christ he was there 3 days!

12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 1240

Which one was right? They both were! The word forever in Hebrew can go all the way from as short as three days to infinity or "the vanishing point".

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

So, you essentially believe the "annihilationist" teaching then. Instead of eternal torment, you understand scripture to mean that there will be a final death for the unbeliever.

I believe I see and understand it that way, too.

Was reading in Psalms last night, with many, many references to the soul that believeth will live forever, while the wicked die a certain death. The Lord saves the believer from death.

This verse here: Psalms 49:20 "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish."

Essentially this verse is saying that unbelievers will perish as the beasts that die. Their soul will not live on, but will perish.

Psalms 33:18 "Behold the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; to deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

So, you essentially believe the "annihilationist" teaching then. Instead of eternal torment, you understand scripture to mean that there will be a final death for the unbeliever.

I believe I see and understand it that way, too.

Was reading in Psalms last night, with many, many references to the soul that believeth will live forever, while the wicked die a certain death. The Lord saves the believer from death.

This verse here: Psalms 49:20 "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish."

Essentially this verse is saying that unbelievers will perish as the beasts that die. Their soul will not live on, but will perish.

Psalms 33:18 "Behold the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; to deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine."

Exactly! The most famous verse in the Bible teaches this.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16

The contrast is between perishing "death" and having eternal life.

The Lake Of Fire is the INSTRUMENT OF DESTRUCTION.

I believe some will be there longer than others. None will come out alive.

It is the Biblical doctrine of eternal judgment. Death lasts forever after the judgment.

An 18 year old who got drunk the first time hit a wall and killed himself will not be given immortality. Neither will he spend trillions upon unending trillions of years engulfed in flames. And then according to the doctrine that is just the beginning of how long they will be tormented.