Dolphins fine and suspend DB Don Jones for Tweet

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Originally Posted by n david

It's not fear, when Mozilla's CEO was forced to resign for simply contributing his personal finances to the Prop8 campaign against gay marriage. It's not fear, when Phil Robertson was nearly taken off Duck Dynasty for answering a reporter's questions about his beliefs. It's not fear, when last week HGTV cancelled a show because the two cast members are on video from previous years speaking against gay marriage. It's not fear, when more and more people are either fired, forced to resign or take some brainwashed sensitivity course.

It's reality, not fear.


Of course there's a line where it becomes harrassment, and harrassment is and should be against employment rules.

"OMG" and "Horrible" are NOT harrassment. Period


I'm not afraid of gay people. I tolerate and respect them as a human being. I don't get angry when they push their trash. All I want is the same tolerance in return -- that I, too, am able to express MY belief and opinion without being called a bigot, hater, or worse.


Again, it's not about fear. It's about being able to say what I believe without being forced to take some brainwashed sensitivity course or getting fired or forced to resign. I tolerate them, they should do the same in return. You're obviously not getting it.


Where in any post I've made here, have I demanded they live to a certain moral code. Please, show me. I'll help you. I haven't. All I've stated is that it's unfathomable that people can't even express their own opinions anymore, without the gays freaking out and demanding people get fired or forced to apologize and get brainwashed.

BTW, I'm not alone on this...even some gays have an issue with what has happened to the Mozilla CEO, HGTV show and now this NFL player.


I'm not surprised.

Modzilla CEO wasnt forced to resign.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

Modzilla CEO wasnt forced to resign.

Yes, he was.

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, he was.

Maybe I misunderstood the story then.

[Fionn mac Cumh]

O and I agree with you NDavid regarding the sensitivity training garbage.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

What did Jesus say when the woman was brought before him who was caught in the act of adultery? Or the woman at the well? What kind of people did Jesus hang around with? What was Jesus' response when the woman with the issue of blood touched him?

You continue to show that you're not getting it. I don't care about any of this...it has absolutely nothing to do with my point. All I want is for everyone to be free to have an opinion. Thus far within just the past month, I've seen where if your opinion happens to be against gay marriage or homosexuality, you're labeled a bigot, fired, forced to resign or get brainwashed.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

I think if Jesus were here today, the Parable of the Good Samaritan, would most likely be the Parable of the Good homosexual.

Oh please. People keep trying to project gays into the bible. First it was the centurion's slave, now this. Hogwash.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

I have no problem with you (or anyone else's) spiritual views on homosexuality. What I DO have a problem with is how these views are unfairly (IMO) used to treat a class of people as less than human. (i.e. denying them their fundamentals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as per the constitution).

Straw man. I've done no such thing. Seriously, did you even read my posts here?

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

I also have a problem with how your express yourself, because I think it gives Christians (and Jesus) a bad name. You can say "I don't agree with the life choices you are making, but Jesus loves you and so do I, and I'll be praying for you."

Straw man. Again, all I've said is it's ridiculous that people can't express their opinions anymore. How on God's green earth is that giving Christians a bad name.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

IMO, Jesus would not say "OMG" and "Horrible" if he saw 2 people of the same-sex kissing.

No, you probably think He'd officiate their marriage ceremony. Ohhh, I bet the marriage at Canaan, where Jesus turned water into wine...you know, Jesus' first miracle. I bet that was a gay marriage ceremony!

[n david]

.

I’m not celebrating Michael Sam, I don’t think anything historic occurred at any point during the NFL Draft (besides the fact that the Raiders actually made a few good decisions), I find this spectacle to be rather embarrassing, I question the motivations of everyone involved, including Michael Sam, and I’ll give you several reasons why:

1) You don’t get to have it both ways. You can tell me that your sexuality is nobody’s business — what you do in your bedroom is between you and whoever you do it with — and I’ll agree. I’ve never taken it upon myself to approach a group of strangers and survey them about their carnal propensities. In my life, I’ve probably had thousands of conversations with thousands of different people. Of those thousands, I can safely say that not once have I begun the exchange by saying,..“Hello, my name is Matt. Do you sleep with people of the same gender?”

Seriously, that’s never happened. OK, maybe I can’t say never, but rarely. The point is, I..usually..don’t grab strangers by their shirt collars and demand that they paint me a vivid portrait of their erotic activities.

Your sexuality is none of my business, right? Yes. Fine. Sounds good to me.

But this “none of my business” shtick is a two way street, friend. What exactly does it mean for a thing to be “none of my business” when you’re holding a press conference and proclaiming it to the entire world?

“Hey, this is personal, man. That’s why I’m throwing a parade, alerting the media, issuing a press release, having t-shirts printed, and booking an interview on 20/20.”

Personal business...You keep using that phrase. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

Michael Sam, apparently, ‘came out’ to his teammates a year ago. By all accounts, they took it well, nobody really cared, and everything continued on as normal. Sam wasn’t hiding in fear and he wasn’t being forced to suppress or disguise anything. But then, mere months before the draft, he decided to declare himself to ESPN and the New York Times.

I remember seeing this headline back in February: “Michael Sam Announces He’s Gay”

My first thought: OK, was anybody asking?

The man pursued national media outlets and, without being provoked or solicited, ‘announced’ his sexual desires to the nation. Why? Because it’s none of our business? Because we should feel nothing and have no opinion on the matter?

No, of course not. We are supposed to feel something, and we are supposed to have an opinion, but they must be the..right..feelings and the..right..opinions.

That’s the point here.

If you simply wish to be accepted, perhaps you’d discuss these private details with those closest to you. If you wish to be celebrated, you throw yourself a party and call the press.

Michael Sam chose the latter.

2) I don’t know Michael Sam. I know more about Michael Sam than I need to, but I don’t know him as a man. He might be brave, for all I know. Maybe he’s rescued kittens from burning buildings, maybe he’s jumped in front of bullets. I’m not saying that he’s not a hero, but I am saying that telling the world about his sex life sure doesn’t make him one. Ellen Page, Jason Collins, Michael Sam — all of these people were greeted by applause and adulation from all across the country. They were hoisted up and canonized by pop culture, most of mainstream society, most major corporations, most of the media, most of academia, most of our politicians, and the President of the United States of America. Their ‘announcements’ instantly ensured them a protected status and, particularly in the case of Collins and Sam, a fame and cultural relevance they would not have otherwise achieved. The criticisms will come from the fringes, and those critics will be drowned out and beaten back by a shouting, venomous mob of dogmatic progressive zealots.

Liberal blogs made much ado about the few random..Tweets..they could find from people expressing disgust about Sam kissing his boyfriend. What these instigators won’t mention is that, in order to get to the ‘bad people,’ they had to wade through thousands of Twitter users falling over themselves in a competition to see who could use the most glowing adjectives to describe watching two men smooch on Sportscenter.

There’s nothing brave about any of this. You can’t measure a man’s bravery by his ability to endure high-fives and congratulations from millions of fawning fans.

And heroic?

To call this heroic is to obliterate the meaning of the word. I’m sure Sam will hear some taunts and jeers, but the people taunting and jeering will be swiftly and immediately punished. He also won’t encounter anywhere near the level of accepted mockery and derision that another well known football player faced, which brings us to…

3) Plenty of people have already said it, but it’s true that many of the Michael Sam cheerleaders are hypocrites of the lowest sort. Say what you will about Tim Tebow; one thing you can’t deny is that the dude was told loudly, harshly, and frequently, to ‘keep his religion to himself.’ Football isn’t a place for religion, they said.

But football..is..a place for sexual identity discussions?

Other current and former NFL players, like..Jake Plummer, said they wished Tebow would “shut up” with the Jesus talk. Plummer was never chastised for making those statements, and no player was ever fined for complaining about Tebow’s overt religiosity. Most people just nodded their head in agreement.

Will players who tell Sam to “shut up” with the gay talk be treated as leniently? I guess that question has already been answered. One Miami Dolphin sent out a two word..disparaging..Tweet when ESPN spent 26 hours airing footage of the now famous same-sex kiss. The offender has since been fined and banned from the team until he undergoes..‘educational training.’..Ex-NFLer Derrick Ward expressed his view that ESPN shouldn’t have aired the kiss, and now people are threatening to..kill him..because of it.

The double standard is so obvious, so inevitable, and so common that I’m bored with pointing it out. Tell Tebow to stop praising his Lord and Savior, and the country will laugh and cheer along, but tell Sam to stop trying to turn his sex life into international headlines, and you’ll be bound, gagged, and tossed into a river.

4) Media hacks have already begun conjuring up a controversy over the fact that it..‘took so long’..for Sam to be drafted.

They’re furrowing their brows and inquiring as to why Saint Michael Sam didn’t get taken off the board until the very end of the last round. Could it be homophobia, they wonder?

Perhaps, or could it be that Sam is a small, slow, middling prospect who might not be good enough to even make the squad? Could it be that he’s exactly the type of player who often goes undrafted every single year? Could it be that he’s a below average talent?

With that said, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if some teams were scared away by the media circus that follows him. That’s a funny thing about football teams — they’re worried about winning football games, not becoming champions for liberal social change. Michael Sam chose to call attention to his sex life. He chose to whip up a media frenzy. That choice guaranteed him a spot on a roster, if only for political reasons. But it also guaranteed that he would be a distraction to whatever team he ultimately joined.

This is all a joke, only it’s not even funny anymore.

As I type this, I see that Michael Sam has already started starring in..ads, making him, I’m assuming, the first 7th round pick to ever get an endorsement deal before training camp even starts.

In the Visa spot, Sam insists that he only wants to be judged for what he does on the field.

A fine sentiment, but one that would have been easily accomplished had he not gone to great lengths to be applauded for what he does in the bedroom.

[n david]

Michael Sam also had a reality TV show already lined up for OWN...before he was even drafted. It's ridiculous. A 7th round "tweener," who likely won't make the team, already has an endorsement deal and reality show. All because of what he does in the bedroom with other men.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by n david

You continue to show that you're not getting it. I don't care about any of this...it has absolutely nothing to do with my point. All I want is for everyone to be free to have an opinion. Thus far within just the past month, I've seen where if your opinion happens to be against gay marriage or homosexuality, you're labeled a bigot, fired, forced to resign or get brainwashed.

Actually, I mostly agree with this. I think people actually have the right to be bigots, and racists, and zealots, or whatever (that actually sounds less nice then I mean it, but I am talking the extreme of the spectrum). However, there is a time and a place for sharing your views. AND if you are in a position where your views could negatively effect the bottom line of the corporate profits, then, I can see where it's probably going to get you fired.

Originally Posted by ndavid

Oh please. People keep trying to project gays into the bible. First it was the centurion's slave, now this. Hogwash.

LOL, that wasn't my intention at all. Though, I'm sure there WERE gay people in biblical times. My point was (and if you hear nothing else I said, please hear this) IS when it comes to gay people WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

How would he respond, how would he react to them, how would he treat them? He had a reputation for hanging out with sinners. He loved them. He called them friend.

The ONLY people that disgusted him, were the thieves in the temple, and the Pharisees. Not those that the law considered unclean, not those living sinful lives, not those who were far from God.

Matthew 9:9-13 (New International Version)
The Calling of Matthew

9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.

10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

As Christians we need to focus less on what everyone else is doing, and ask if we are being Jesus to the world.

Sometimes we succeed. I left the church and for a long time anything having to do with organized Christianity. I had premarital sex. My boyfriend moved in with me. I got pregnant out of wedlock. At which point I knowingly and purposely married an Atheist.

And yet people have loved me, and embraced me and prayed for me, and called me friend and sister. Even though I do not regret my actions. (I love my husband and daughter so much, I'd do it again.)

And you know what I don't get? Judgement. I don't get "don't be unequally yoked" shoved down my throat when I share my struggles to share Jesus with my toddler and my husbands objections. I get love and understanding and prayers.

And I know what most believe. I know where they stand spiritually on my life decisions, and my spiritual views, etc. And yet they show me love. And so I see Jesus in that.

I just don't understand why that same love can't be shown to gay people. It doesn't mean that you accept their life choices, just that you accept and love them because they are made in the image of Jesus, and He loves them.

I don't mean to sound preachy, and I know this isn't even the topic. It just saddens me.

(I'll go back and read and address the other things you said. But i'll warn you that you'll most likely be disappointed, I tend to debate with emotion and life experience, not rhetoric)

[n david]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Actually, I mostly agree with this. I think people actually have the right to be bigots, and racists, and zealots, or whatever (that actually sounds less nice then I mean it, but I am talking the extreme of the spectrum). However, there is a time and a place for sharing your views. AND if you are in a position where your views could negatively effect the bottom line of the corporate profits, then, I can see where it's probably going to get you fired.

LoL. And there it is. Let me ask you...are all people who do not accept homosexuality (ie majority of Christians) bigots? Also, the Mozilla CEO wasn't sharing his views. He wasn't talking about anything. He simply donated money to the Prop8 campaign and a gay group found it and made a big deal out of it. And the HGTV cast members also said nothing on the show....it was because of personal beliefs said before the show was made which the same gay group made a big deal of. What's happening isn't people harassing gays at work, it's been things done personally, and away from work.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

LOL, that wasn't my intention at all. Though, I'm sure there WERE gay people in biblical times. My point was (and if you hear nothing else I said, please hear this) IS when it comes to gay people WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

He wouldn't celebrate their sin.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

How would he respond, how would he react to them, how would he treat them? He had a reputation for hanging out with sinners. He loved them. He called them friend.

I'm sorry, but Jesus did not call the sinners "friend." This is a common error, often repeated. It was others who said Jesus was a friend of publicans and sinners; however, Jesus Himself never once called them friend.

What did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery? Did He hug her and bid her blessings? No. He said, "Go, and sin no more." It's fallacy to think Jesus would not do the same with a homosexual.

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

The ONLY people that disgusted him, were the thieves in the temple, and the Pharisees. Not those that the law considered unclean, not those living sinful lives, not those who were far from God.

Matthew 9:9-13 (New International Version)
The Calling of Matthew

9 As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.

10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

As Christians we need to focus less on what everyone else is doing, and ask if we are being Jesus to the world.

The Nearly Inspired Version omits the key part of the last verse.

Matthew 9:13 KJV
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 9:13 AMP
Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy [that is, readiness to help those in trouble] and not sacrifice and sacrificial victims. For I came not to call and invite [to repentance] the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), but sinners (the erring ones and all those not free from sin). [Hos. 6:6.]

Big difference. Huge! Jesus came, not to call the righteous, but call the sinner... To what, hang out and enjoy each others company? No! Call them to REPENTANCE! To change their lives. To leave their life of sin.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by n david

LoL. And there it is. Let me ask you...are all people who do not accept homosexuality (ie majority of Christians) bigots? Also, the Mozilla CEO wasn't sharing his views. He wasn't talking about anything. He simply donated money to the Prop8 campaign and a gay group found it and made a big deal out of it. And the HGTV cast members also said nothing on the show....it was because of personal beliefs said before the show was made which the same gay group made a big deal of. What's happening isn't people harassing gays at work, it's been things done personally, and away from work.


He wouldn't celebrate their sin.


I'm sorry, but Jesus did not call the sinners "friend." This is a common error, often repeated. It was others who said Jesus was a friend of publicans and sinners; however, Jesus Himself never once called them friend.

What did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery? Did He hug her and bid her blessings? No. He said, "Go, and sin no more." It's fallacy to think Jesus would not do the same with a homosexual.


Did you leave out the last part of that verse intentionally, or by accident.

Matthew 9:13 KJV
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Big difference. Huge! Jesus came, not to call the righteous, but call the sinner... To what, hang out and enjoy each others company? No! Call them to REPENTANCE! To change their lives. To leave their life of sin.

Actually, no, I meant to post that verse, that was actually the main verse I wanted! Because I wanted to point out that Jesus is about compassion and mercy.

This whole conversation has just made me so sad. Like, tears rolling down your cheeks at work, and the feeling that there is just an irreconcilable difference and no amount of conversation is going to change that.

Usually this only happens when I am trying to convince my husband that sunday school once a week will not scar our daughter for life.

You know that feeling, when you feel so strongly that God is telling you something or has shown you something, or impressed something upon your soul, and others don't get it or think you're crazy or just plain deceived?

When I think of how Jesus wooed me, how He forgives my blindness and my weaknesses and always reaches out for me when I fall short, His infinite patience when I've turned away, and most of all the reminder that nothing I do will ever increase or decrease the love He has for me.

I don't know much. I don't usually claim the title of Christian. I've been to a church 3 times in the past 7 years. (all in the last month) I came from a horrible place spiritually, go back, look for posts in 2007 under Michlow, and you will find plenty of bitterness, and anger, and despair and confusion. And I felt alone and rejected and abandoned.

For a long time, I couldn't see any light, only darkness. And it was only through the patient, unconditional love of Jesus that I was emotionally, and spiritually healed.

So I guess I feel a burden to be to others what Jesus was to me.

But I want to apologize, because I think in my zeal, I came off as judgmental and harsh, and that wasn't my intention. I just feel such a burden for those that feel that the church, and Christians, and God have rejected and abandoned them.

I already confessed that I don't morally have a problem with same-sex monogamous relationships. But ultimately, I believe that if I can show people Jesus, and He draws them near, He will show them what He wants of their lives.