The Scriptures Are Subjective

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Reader

Let's look at this, then from your devil's advocate view.

It would appear that we shouldn't bother with anything at all in the Bible because all we know is that someone wrote it and we cannot know if anything is true.

Then, taking this, shouldn't one toss out any belief in Jesus because ultimately that is at least partly founded in what you read in the Bible? He was just a nice man that loved people. Oh- but wait- we really don't know if he did because we can't know if that part is true. Maybe he was really a mean person, throwing people out of the temple. Oh - but wait - we really don't know if that happened either.

How can one be fond of a book that you can't trust to mean a thing that it states?

I said that we can't KNOW, but that we can BELIEVE. That's what faith is. The very idea of faith is to believe in something that can't be proven. I believe in Jesus, I believe that he lives inside of me, and that he loves me. But I can't PROVE that to my Atheist husband.

I am fond of the Bible, because it taught me about Jesus. I don't KNOW that everything in the Bible is true. But I BELIEVE that many of the things are true, because the Bible led me to relationship with Jesus, through the indwelling Spirit. That's all faith, I can't prove that to anyone, but it's very very real to me.

Let me ask you this. (I'm borrowing this from a book I read years ago, I think maybe Rob Bell?). What's more important, that the Garden of Eden happened or that it happens? Whether it is literal or metaphor, it speaks to us, it teaches us, it gives us spiritual insight.

The truth is, I don't think I could worship a God who literally commanded the Israelites to commit genocide, or was OK with slavery, or didn't have a problem with women being raped or treated like Chattel.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

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The truth is, I don't think I could worship a God who literally commanded the Israelites to commit genocide, or was OK with slavery, or didn't have a problem with women being raped or treated like Chattel.

Agreed.

[mfblume]

I think some folks need a fear of God. lol.

Sounds like the world's recent arguments against God, here. The recent barrage of debate has been to believe there is a God, and to accept Scripture as His Word, but to criticize Him for what He does.

What gall.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ILG

Agreed.

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

...disregarding that we are not in that dispensation, and that those stories are not being retold in approval, but to illuminate some raw truth. In each of those stories of rape or incest are central points that seem to be being missed? I mean, we have stories about people under siege eating their own children, too--doesn't mean God recommends it.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by shazeep

...disregarding that we are not in that dispensation, and that those stories are not being retold in approval, but to illuminate some raw truth. In each of those stories of rape or incest are central points that seem to be being missed? I mean, we have stories about people under siege eating their own children, too--doesn't mean God recommends it.

Good points you make! The world was a rough place back then and life was violent at times, just as it still is in some places. Even if Israel had marched into the promised land unopposed they probably would have had to eventually fight to defend themselves and their territory. Of course the people that they did not eliminate were always a problem for them.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Carl

Good points you make! The world was a rough place back then and life was violent at times, just as it still is in some places. Even if Israel had marched into the promised land unopposed they probably would have had to eventually fight to defend themselves and their territory. Of course the people that they did not eliminate were always a problem for them.

I am trying to be careful with my words, but the testimony of Scripture is clear. A certain someone HATES Israel and her Seed, and will stop at nothing to demonize her and her history in the eyes of the world so the Messiah that sprang from her is likewise rejected.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by shazeep

...disregarding that we are not in that dispensation, and that those stories are not being retold in approval, but to illuminate some raw truth. In each of those stories of rape or incest are central points that seem to be being missed? I mean, we have stories about people under siege eating their own children, too--doesn't mean God recommends it.

Absolutely correct. God's silence or lack of immediate retributive action upon all sin everywhere is not a sign of His approval or commendation, but rather an act of HIS MERCY.

If God requited every person for their sins the moment they sinned, there wouldn't be a human race around to sin.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

Being interpreted:
"God is good and just so all his wars and commands must be good and just"

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Being interpreted:
"God is good and just so all his wars and commands must be good and just"

Getting caught on Euthrypho's horns, eh, jfrog?