Question?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

That is an admirable thing, and because of Acts 22:16, I agree that between the two, the one immersed more so that the one immersing needs to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus. I teach it this way.

But I have no doubt that it also matters that the immerser call upon the name of the Lord, since they are commanded "whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus".

Can two walk together except be they agreed?

If a person is using a triune formula, thinking that Christ is God the Son, the second person in the Godhead, and they go baptizing invoking the titles, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit on account of that belief, but the soon to be immersed is not a Trinitarian, and understands Christ to not be what the immerser thinks/believes He is (i.e. not God the Son, but rather the Incarnation of God the Father), then why in a million years would the soon to be immersed ever agree to be so baptized (and vice versa, why would a Trinitarian minister ever agree to baptize someone with a triune formula knowing the one to be immersed didn't believe in the fundamental theology of God the one doing the immersing)?

The only way either would agree is if they both agreed that it didn't matter.

Is the baptizer ever commanded to utter certain words over the candidate? Is there ever an example of this? He is said to "baptize in the name" but could that also not be a metaphor in Who he is following and what he stands for? Does that literally mean he must utter something verbally? Isn't the only one who is actually commanded to call on the name the candidate?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ILG

Is the baptizer ever commanded to utter certain words over the candidate? Is there ever an example of this? He is said to "baptize in the name" but could that also not be a metaphor in Who he is following and what he stands for? Does that literally mean he must utter something verbally? Isn't the only one who is actually commanded to call on the name the candidate?

If such is true, uttering the name of Jesus for any reason then becomes unnecessary.

Jesus is a real, living being, currently in heaven at the right hand of God. It's not enough to just presume that we have the authority represented by His Name. We must exercise that authority by invoking It.

When I baptize people in the name of Jesus Christ, it's not just me uttering a ritualistic phrase or incantation. When I am baptizing someone in the name of Jesus Christ, and I speak the name out loud, I, along with the immersed, am calling on the name of the Lord in faith for the person's salvation, simply because there is salvation in no other Name.

All who CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. This requires using the voice and speaking the Name. The idea that the immerser just pushes a person underwater, saying nothing just doesn't match up to the requirements of Scripture.

When Paul cast the spirit of divination out of the "damsel", he verbally called out and commanded the spirit in the name of the Lord Jesus. He didn't just silently cast out the demon because he had been authorized by the One who bears that Name.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If such is true, uttering the name of Jesus for any reason then becomes unnecessary.

Jesus is a real, living being, currently in heaven at the right hand of God. It's not enough to just presume that we have the authority represented by His Name. We must exercise that authority by invoking It.

When I baptize people in the name of Jesus Christ, it's not just me uttering a ritualistic phrase or incantation. When I am baptizing someone in the name of Jesus Christ, and I speak the name out loud, I, along with the immersed, am calling on the name of the Lord in faith for the person's salvation, simply because there is salvation in no other Name.

All who CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. This requires using the voice and speaking the Name. The idea that the immerser just pushes a person underwater, saying nothing just doesn't match up to the requirements of Scripture.

When Paul cast the spirit of divination out of the "damsel", he verbally called out and commanded the spirit in the name of the Lord Jesus. He didn't just silently cast out the demon because he had been authorized by the One who bears that Name.

You can do all of those things, but if you tell a person "unless you are baptized with a preacher saying the name Jesus over top of you, you are lost" I think you are wrong and unbiblical.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ILG

You can do all of those things, but if you tell a person "unless you are baptized with a preacher saying the name Jesus over top of you, you are lost" I think you are wrong and unbiblical.

Fair enough. I believe opposite. May the Lord reveal the truth as He sees fit.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Fair enough. I believe opposite. May the Lord reveal the truth as He sees fit.

That is fair enough too. The only bone I have to pick is veering from the path of salvation by grace through faith. Once you start putting little conditions on it it produces a fear based religion.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by ILG

That is fair enough too. The only bone I have to pick is veering from the path of salvation by grace through faith. Once you start putting little conditions on it it produces a fear based religion.

[I]This[/] is ILG being bitter and evil, or whatever? ok