All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

Originalist · #1 07-13-2014, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Test, Test. Could I have your attention, puleeeeze. You know all that stuff Jesus said about remission of sins in His name and what Peter preached in Acts 2 about remission of sins? Fergit it. Paul has a better grip on remissions of sins so just read Romans 8.

tic

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

Sean · #2 07-13-2014, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?
You MUST deal with this.

Bro. If I may butt in here...Romans 8:2 was written to folks that were already baptized. Their sins were remitted already....Bro., you know me...I will drop the POST bomb here if you dont agree...LOL

Originalist · #3 07-13-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro. If I may butt in here...Romans 8:2 was written to folks that were already baptized. Their sins were remitted already....Bro., you know me...I will drop the POST bomb here if you dont agree...LOL

Agreed. but Paul is reiterating to these once sinners how God saved them.

mfblume · #4 07-13-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Agreed. but Paul is reiterating to these once sinners how God saved them.

Yes, but no where close to the degree that we find in Acts.

Romans is far beyond how they got saved. It was details no one even knew on the day of Pentecost that only came due to revelation years later that actually speaks about victory over committing sins, rather than the shallow "sin so that grace might abound," that most people today actually still believe. Even apostolics!

Originalist · #5 07-13-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes, but no where close to the degree that we find in Acts.

Simply not true. Paul is reiterating and explaining just what happened in Acts.

mfblume · #6 07-13-2014, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

No Paul does not declare that. It says that the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE frees us from another LAW of sin and death. It does not say simply having the Spirit frees us.

That means there is a LAW that we succumb to if we do not abide by the Law of the Spirit. Paul showed how we succumb in ch 7. YOU WILL TO DO GOOD but find that you cannot do it through fleshly efforts to fulfill your will. It's like wanting to not sin, and trying your best not to, and then finding yourself doing it anyway!

Since there is a LAW to how the Spirit works, we need to learn the specifics of that law. And that is explained in Romans 6.

First we get baptized. But so many do not know what baptism did. That is why Paul asked KNOW YE NOT?

So we must LEARN what happened in baptism so that we can DO something that qualifies us fro the LAW OF THE SPIRIT to be effective in us. Once you know Christ's death is your death, due to your baptism in to his death, then you can know you are also RESURRECTED with Him since it is a package deal. And once you know that, you can present yourself to God as one who is resurrected. Alive from the dead. 6:13. That means you do not simply will yourself to do good, but you present yourself to God in faith for him to empower you. That is a far cry from willing to do good and then attempting to do it in fleshly strength.

THAT is how the Law of the Spirit makes us free. Otherwise, we're in Christ, have no clue about how the law of the Spirit works, and wonder why the Spirit never empowers us to overcome sin. Once we know of what to do from ch 6 and what not to do in ch 7, we can then finally walk after the Spirit by reliance on HIS POWER, and that means the law of the Spirit will free us from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death states that if you will yourself to do good and use flesh to do it, you will fail. The law of the Spirit states that if you rely upon God instead of fleshly power, as in Rom 6:13, the Spirit can then WORK and empower you to overcome!

You can have the Spirit, be in Christ and still walk after the flesh to fail.

Originalist · #7 07-13-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

No Paul does not declare that. It says that the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE frees us from another LAW of sin and death. It does not say simply having the Spirit frees us.

That means there is a LAW that we succumb to if we do not abide by the Law of the Spirit. Paul showed how we succumb in ch 7. YOU WILL TO DO GOOD but find that you cannot do it through fleshly efforts to fulfill your will. It's like wanting to not sin, and trying your best not to, and then finding yourself doing it anyway!

Since there is a LAW to how the Spirit works, we need to learn the specifics of that law. And that is explained in Romans 6.

First we get baptized. But so many do not know what baptism did. That is why Paul asked KNOW YE NOT?

So we must LEARN what happened in baptism so that we can DO something that qualifies us fro the LAW OF THE SPIRIT to be effective in us. Once you know Christ's death is your death, due to your baptism in to his death, then you can know you are also RESURRECTED with Him since it is a package deal. And once you know that, you can present yourself to God as one who is resurrected. Alive from the dead. 6:13. That means you do not simply will yourself to do good, but you present yourself to God in faith for him to empower you. That is a far cry from willing to do good and then attempting to do it in fleshly strength.

THAT is how the Law of the Spirit makes us free. Otherwise, we're in Christ, have no clue about how the law of the Spirit works, and wonder why the Spirit never empowers us to overcome sin. Once we know of what to do from ch 6 and what not to do in ch 7, we can then finally walk after the Spirit by reliance on HIS POWER, and that means the law of the Spirit will free us from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death states that if you will yourself to do good and use flesh to do it, you will fail. The law of the Spirit states that if you rely upon God instead of fleshly power, as in Rom 6:13, the Spirit can then WORK and empower you to overcome!

You can have the Spirit, be in Christ and still walk after the flesh to fail.

I agree with much of what you say. but according to Peter, those whom God has baptized with the Holy Ghost have indeed obeyed that Law. Acts 5:32...

Quote:

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Much to yours and others disdain, this would include those people who were baptized for Christ's sake, but the one who baptized them stumbled at his part. If God gives them his Spirit, then he is declaring that they have obeyed the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Sure, tell them about baptism in the name of Jesus (as far as invoking the name is concerned, that is), but tell them as BROTHERS, not sinners who are unsaved.

Abiding Now · #8 07-13-2014, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Has anyone said that? But perhaps where we are erring is thinking tangible things called "sins" are attached to our souls and that when a preacher says the word Jesus when he baptizes us, that these things called sins that are attached to our souls are magically washed away. That does seem to be the interpretation many in our movement have concerning Peter's words concerning the name of Jesus as it relates to the remission of sins in baptism. We credit the baptism for taking away the sin instead of Jesus taking away the sin when we are baptized INTO his name. We separate Jesus the person from Jesus the name.

But let me ask you. Paul declares in Romans 8:2 that one who has the Spirit has been made free from the law of sin and death. Please think about Paul's statement carefully. Now, please explain, according to your soteriology, how one could be free from the law of sin and death while at the same time still carrying around ever sin they have ever committed?

You MUST deal with this.

Read Sean's post above. Romans (and all the epistles) is written to folks that are in the church, those that have been born again of water and Spirit, those that have already had there sins remitted at water baptism in Jesus name. Paul was explaining in Romans 7 and 8 the struggle that even born again saints would have with their flesh. Vs.13 gives us saints the answer to the struggle, "mordify" (make dead, kill, put to death) the flesh.

Originalist · #9 07-13-2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Read Sean's post above. Romans (and all the epistles) is written to folks that are in the church, those that have been born again of water and Spirit, those that have already had there sins remitted at water baptism in Jesus name. Paul was explaining in Romans 7 and 8 the struggle that even born again saints would have with their flesh. Vs.13 gives us saints the answer to the struggle, "mordify" (make dead, kill, put to death) the flesh.

Paul is demonstrating in Romans 7 the futility of trying to be saved or overcome our flesh by the Law.

Paul is contrasting in Romans 8 living under the Spirit's dominion versus living without the Spirit under the dominion of the flesh.