Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

There are certainly multiple other places where Paul lets us know that we are not equal to Christ, so I know that this is not what he was intending to say in this passage. Yet... this is one of those passages that Trinitarians and others can use against the oneness of God and Christ.

Yes Trinitarians always use passages of "distinction" to imply "separation" in order to justify their notion of God being three "separate persons".

But we have to not think in dichotomies. We have to think categorically. Categorically, one thing may be true... while another seemingly opposite reality is also true... at the same time. In this case... Jesus is a man. However, Jesus is also God.

As it relates to us and glorification... there is value in understanding the "now/not yet" paradigm. We are now living in union with Christ, and experiencing the divine nature as it relates to our "inner man", our "spirit", through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in our being. So this reality is "now". But... that's only our spirit. Our soul (psuche/mind) is "not yet" regenerated and must be renewed daily through prayer, meditation, and study. Nor have we experienced the regeneration of our bodies. This comes at the resurrection. So this is also, "not yet". Therefore... I can say that we are in union with Christ and partaking in the divine nature and experiencing being "sons of God" through the Holy Spirit in one sentence... and then draw distinction and illustrate how we are not yet what we shall be in another.

That's my understanding. I hope that helps.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes Trinitarians always use passages of "distinction" to imply "separation" in order to justify their notion of God being three "separate persons".

But we have to not think in dichotomies. We have to think categorically. Categorically, one thing may be true... while another seemingly opposite reality is also true... at the same time. In this case... Jesus is a man. However, Jesus is also God.

I agree that we cannot try to understand God in human terms. He dwells outside our human understanding and reasoning. I think Trinitarians want a humanistic God, one who they can break up into human elements and relationships, and understand. But God dwells in a place that is untouched by human relationships and understanding.

Originally Posted by Aquila

As it relates to us and glorification... there is value in understanding the "now/not yet" paradigm. We are now living in union with Christ, and experiencing the divine nature as it relates to our "inner man", our "spirit". So this reality is "now". But... that's only our spirit. Our soul (psuche/mind) is "not yet" regenerated. Nor has our bodies experienced regeneration. This comes at the resurrection, so it is also "not yet". So... I can say that we are in union with Christ and partaking in the divine nature and experiencing being "sons of God" in one sentence... and then draw distinction and illustrate how we are not yet what we shall be in another.

That's my understanding. I hope that helps.

Yes, I understand. But... I think we have to admit, the Apostle Paul does use terminology that certainly encourages the Trinitarian point of view at times.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I agree that we cannot try to understand God in human terms. He dwells outside our human understanding and reasoning. I think Trinitarians want a humanistic God, one who they can break up into human elements and relationships, and understand. But God dwells in a place that is untouched by human relationships and understanding.



Yes, I understand. But... I think we have to admit, the Apostle Paul does use terminology that certainly encourages the Trinitarian point of view at times.

When Paul draws any attention to a "distinction"... and it is mistaken for implying "separation", yes. I agree.