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Old 11-01-2014, 04:58 PM
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Abiding Now Abiding Now is offline
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Re: A-, Pre-, or Post mil?

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
All through history, any time Christians were being persecuted they thought it was the tribulation. Imagine in WW2 when Hitler was persecuting the Jews. Hooboy, the end of the world for sure! That was 75 years ago. Whatever the current trouble of war is in the world, SOMEONE SOMEWHERE thinks it's the deal leading to Armageddon.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
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Old 11-01-2014, 05:03 PM
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Re: A-, Pre-, or Post mil?

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2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
That is more the truth of the matter than anything. We must through much tribulation enter the kingdom of heaven. Acts 14:22. Rather than say THIS or THAT is the "Great Tribulation" foretold by Jesus, I claim it is long past, and everything we see now is simply the standard for every believer in one form or another. I think of THESE verses when I see troubles it the world today.

But we'll still see experts analyze the idiosyncrasies of each trouble in current times we happen to be in, and point to indications that it is THE "GREAT" one prophesied.
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Last edited by mfblume; 11-01-2014 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 11-02-2014, 01:15 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: A-, Pre-, or Post mil?

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
That is more the truth of the matter than anything. We must through much tribulation enter the kingdom of heaven. Acts 14:22. Rather than say THIS or THAT is the "Great Tribulation" foretold by Jesus, I claim it is long past, and everything we see now is simply the standard for every believer in one form or another. I think of THESE verses when I see troubles it the world today.

But we'll still see experts analyze the idiosyncrasies of each trouble in current times we happen to be in, and point to indications that it is THE "GREAT" one prophesied.
There is a reason we cannot just leave the thought of the great tribulation in the past.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matt 24:15-21

Christ Jesus said the great tribulation he was referring to would be the worst time of tribulation the world had ever known up until that time. Also there would NEVER AGAIN be such a terrible time.

What happened to the Jewish people in Jerusalem in 70 ad does not qualify as the greatest tribulation the world has ever known. Other things in history were more intense and far more destructive and deadly than it.

Far more people died in both World War 1 and World War 2 than in 70 ad. Even far more JEWISH PEOPLE died under the Nazi's in WW2 than died in Jerusalem 70ad.

With these facts established it should be clear that if the great tribulation would be such a terrible time and that such a time would NEVER AGAIN occur I think we can leave the idea of it being fulfilled in 70 ad behind.

Tribulation far greater HAS happened since then.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:15 AM
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Re: A-, Pre-, or Post mil?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
There is a reason we cannot just leave the thought of the great tribulation in the past.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matt 24:15-21

Christ Jesus said the great tribulation he was referring to would be the worst time of tribulation the world had ever known up until that time. Also there would NEVER AGAIN be such a terrible time.

What happened to the Jewish people in Jerusalem in 70 ad does not qualify as the greatest tribulation the world has ever known. Other things in history were more intense and far more destructive and deadly than it.

Far more people died in both World War 1 and World War 2 than in 70 ad. Even far more JEWISH PEOPLE died under the Nazi's in WW2 than died in Jerusalem 70ad.

With these facts established it should be clear that if the great tribulation would be such a terrible time and that such a time would NEVER AGAIN occur I think we can leave the idea of it being fulfilled in 70 ad behind.

Tribulation far greater HAS happened since then.
You estimate greatness by a standard that is not necessarily what Jesus intended. You may be right, it might be. But I seriously do not think so. GREAT can be great in various ways. Jerusalem was HIS BRIDE. Read Ezekiel 16 to see that. His NAME was there in the form of the temple. And THE GREATEST trouble of all time was HIS OWN BRIDE being wiped out after having played the whore with Rome and repeating the same harlotry she was known to practice for centuries before. This was HIS WIFE! GREAT here is SIGNIFICANCE.

The reason it would never again be so, it because the only thing that could match it or exceed it is the CHURCH BRIDE turning her back on Him and Him destroying her. And that is not going to happen.

AS HIS BRIDE, Jerusalem of old stopped existing in AD70 when He judged that generation -- the same generation from Matt 24:34 that would see ALL THE REST OF THE EVENTS OCCUR> If the temple destruction was part of those events, and that occurred in AD70, then everything else listed there would also occur for that generation. And since the great tribulation was part of the same list as the temple destruction, then that was the one of AD70.

Even the simple context from Matt 21 onward flows into chapter 24 when Jesus repeatedly warned Israel of their doom due to rejecting him the day He rode into the city as her king and flipped the moneychangers' tables.

The disciples solely asked him about the words at the end of Matt 23, when they pointed him tot he temple buildings that he just said would be left desolate after speaking about Jerusalem losing the chance to be gathered under wings like a hen gathers chicks when facing danger.

Nothing made Jesus change topics to the disciples' questions about THEIR DAY to some events to not occur for millennia later.
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