Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Which is where Oneness is confusing

You just argued two persons. The Father is the Divine person and the Son is the Human person...but Jesus is both God and man. So Jesus is two persons

So there are two persons named Jesus. So there are two Jesus'

See they teach Jesus is a man because to them and everyone else the name Jesus is the name of the Son...which you said is a Human person

But then you just said Jesus is God and man so to the Trinitarians you have 2 Divine Persons.

That is really confusing

Well to those who want to make it confusing maybe. Two divine persons would be two persons who were both God. IF we can consider God a "person" Jesus IN HIS DEITY is the only one who is God. One person of God.

Jesus in his humanity is obviously a human person.

One God and one man not two God persons.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim. 2:5

Do you not believe Jesus is BOTH?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Which is where Oneness is confusing

You just argued two persons. The Father is the Divine person and the Son is the Human person...but Jesus is both God and man. So Jesus is two persons

So there are two persons named Jesus. So there are two Jesus'

See they teach Jesus is a man because to them and everyone else the name Jesus is the name of the Son...which you said is a Human person

But then you just said Jesus is God and man so to the Trinitarians you have 2 Divine Persons.

That is really confusing

Well to those who want to make it confusing maybe. Two divine persons would be two persons who were both God. IF we can consider God a "person" Jesus IN HIS DEITY is the only one who is God. One person of God.

Jesus in his humanity is obviously a human person.

One God and one man not two God persons.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim. 2:5

Do you not believe Jesus is BOTH? When a Trin talks about 3 persons THEY mean 3 persons who are eternally and equally God. Thats much different than when a Oneness says Jesus is God and man.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well to those who want to make it confusing maybe. Two divine persons would be two persons who were both God. IF we can consider God a "person" Jesus IN HIS DEITY is the only one who is God. One person of God.

Jesus in his humanity is obviously a human person.

One God and one man not two God persons.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim. 2:5

Do you not believe Jesus is BOTH?

It's not a matter of making it confusing. It's a matter of what I just pointed out

I believe the Son is both God and Man...I DO NOT believe Father and Son are two different persons.

As I said one God person and One Human Person is Unitarianism.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's not a matter of making it confusing. It's a matter of what I just pointed out

I believe the Son is both God and Man...I DO NOT believe Father and Son are two different persons.

As I said one God person and One Human Person is Unitarianism.

There is this thing called "modalism". God can exist in one mode of being as God the Father. Simultaneously he can exist in another mode of being as the Son Jesus.

It looks like this:

14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. 1 Tim. 6:14-16

The glorified man Jesus dwells in the unapproachable light/omnipresent spirit which is himself YHWH beyond or outside of his human person.

So what Unitarians believe Jesus is both God and man? I would be interested in knowing.

[mfblume]

Unitarians believe Jesus was not God in any imaginable way whatsoever.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There is this thing called "modalism". God can exist in one mode of being as God the Father. Simultaneously he can exist in another mode of being as the Son Jesus..

Modalism does not teach two persons, one is God and the other is not

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Unitarians believe Jesus was not God in any imaginable way whatsoever.

Yes but when THEY say the name "Jesus", they mean the Son. They don't mean the Father

Unitarians deny the Son is God. They say the Son is a Human Person and God is a Divine Person

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Modalism does not teach two persons, one is God and the other is not

Well the trend in Oneness is against saying Christ has has two "natures".
The human and divine natures interacting with each other.

What else does that leave us pray tell?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well the trend in Oneness is against saying Christ has has two "natures".

I haven't seen that trend but what does that have to do with someone saying there are two persons?

The human and divine natures interacting with each other.

That is Nestorianism, however it is correct that the interaction between Father and Son does at least involved the two natures, but a nature does not pray. Persons pray

What else does that leave us pray tell?

It leaves you with 2 persons. One is God and the other is human, by your own admission

[obriencp]

Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems Prax has a problem with everyone's oneness explanation. Can you share your explanation of oneness without having multiple 'persons,' personalities, or distinctions?

This thread is proven that even in oneness there is a lot of variance.