Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Aquila]

Man is made inGod's image. Therefore, we can determine limited elements of personal attributes in comparison to God. A person is a living being who has a self-conscious reality, or self, complete with distinct attributes of reason, will, and emotion, that relates to other existing realities through I/you relationship.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're saying that the same "self" (person) that prayed to the Father is the same "self" (person) as the Father. That means He'd speak with a singular sense of "self". "Hello, me. I'd like to ask me to glorify me with my own self." "I and me are one." lol

It doesn't work that way. If a "mode" (as you call it) has a distinct sense of self, that "mode" has a distinct "personhood" and is therefore a distinct "person" with a distinct line of thought, will, and ability to reason. And that's what we see in the Son.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes it does work that way and no he would not do that. Why? As explained He existed as both Father AND Son at the same time with two distinct natures

He really was God as the Father and God incarnate as the Son (Deity united with Humanity)

BTW, I don't care for analogies but if you've ever followed science fiction and Quantum Mechanics, maybe you can see how one Person can be in two distinct dimensions or time frames and communication with each other. Same Person

In Oneness the Father is God existing transcendentally and the Son Temporally

One is outside of all constraints and the other is a part of Creation

One functions through the Divine will and the other through the Human will.

Yes ontologically it is possible and YES grammatically it's demanded. When Jesus prays he does not pray to the Son. He prays to the Father in heaven. He has a human will and human brain and a humanized perception of everything so why wouldn't he have a perception of the Father as if the Father were someone other than himself?

Let me approach it this way. Your idea of Person is one way but Person can also include the idea of being, the WHOLE Person

And so while they are the same self conscious individual they are not necessarily the same Being (referring to essence)

So the Father is the Divine Being and the Son with the Human nature is functionally a Human being

There is One Person (Your idea) that Personifies both natures and both "Beings"

The word Being simply means "exist" and Nature explains how we persons exist.

God (Person) exists as both God and Man

Second time I REPOSTED this for Aquila

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Man is made inGod's image. Therefore, we can determine limited elements of personal attributes in comparison to God. A person is a living being who has a self-conscious reality, or self, complete with distinct attributes of reason, will, and emotion, that relates to other existing realities through I/you relationship.

Then you are Twoness. One more to go and you'll be ready for reunion with Rome.

(Said tongue in cheek but all humour is based in truth...)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You can't compare metaphoric reference to interpersonal relationship and/or conversation.

Oh, so we cannot take the word for what it says? (Your argument against what i wrote)

So again, it is an illusion.

It's an example of how the Word uses these pictures. I claim God does that with His single person, too. But again, as far away as an image is from us, the genuine humanity is from God. Picture genuine humanity in all we know it to be, being THAT MUCH INFERIOR to God's deity as our mirror image is to us! Then you can realize what I mean by taking off human limitations from God's abilities.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Man is made inGod's image. Therefore, we can determine limited elements of personal attributes in comparison to God. A person is a living being who has a self-conscious reality, or self, complete with distinct attributes of reason, will, and emotion, that relates to other existing realities through I/you relationship.

Man being an image vastly differs from God as much as your image in a mirror is vastly different from you. Our image in a mirror is but a shadow. No heartbeat, breath, blood pressure... you get the idea.

God is omnipresent, possess attributes beyond what any of us can even IMAGINE...

As vastly inferior as your mirror image is to you, that is us compared to God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If something doesn't mean what it says, nor what it implies, it can mean anything. It becomes open to private interpretation.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You can't compare metaphoric reference to interpersonal relationship and/or conversation.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Oh, so we cannot take the word for what it says? (Your argument against what i wrote)

So again, it is an illusion.

It's an example of how the Word uses these pictures. I claim God does that with His single person, too. But again, as far away as an image is from us, the genuine humanity is from God. Picture genuine humanity in all we know it to be, being THAT MUCH INFERIOR to God's deity as our mirror image is to us! Then you can realize what I mean by taking off human limitations from God's abilities.

Seems Aquila has a double standard

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Seems Aquila has a double standard

Yes. He says our thoughts make the word an illusion and yet he says that's what it is when we give him the example of the man speaking to his own soul.

[Michael The Disciple]

The conversation seems to have morphed into something else. When I accepted that Jesus was the only God-the Father thats when I became what was then called "Apostolic". All the Churches I was aware of that called themselves by that name believed this. Peace, out.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Then you are Twoness. One more to go and you'll be ready for reunion with Rome.

(Said tongue in cheek but all humour is based in truth...)

Rome would never agree that the Son is a man who is also the Father.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes. He says our thoughts make the word an illusion and yet he says that's what it is when we give him the example of the man speaking to his own soul.

Not a double standard. If I speak to my soul (psuche/psyche) metaphorically as though it is another that's one thing...but if I speak to one who I indwell and is my beloved Son...that's another.