Oh WAKE UP people!!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

You make a good point.

Rebelling against God's order in secular government is rebellion none-the-less. Wanting to oust those in authority of whom God has given authority is unwise.

Pat Robertson stated when Clinton was in office "we need to take the white house back" paraphrasing. Was Pat not pleased with the authority given to Clinton?

To me it is clear that God sets up rulers and sets them down. It is not the church's affair imo. We are to pray for them not against them.

How do we determine which rulers are ordained by God? Also, is not Obama the one rejecting God's order of government for the USA by rejecting the constitution? How then would the States be in rebellion by not obeying an unlawful order?

[shazeep]

hmm, if i may, King Saul tells me that all rulers are ordained by God, to perfectly mirror the will of the people--which is evil. I personally find Obama's rejection of the Connie (and his declaration of the curse of Ezekiel upon us) to be just that.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

How do we determine which rulers are ordained by God? Also, is not Obama the one rejecting God's order of government for the USA by rejecting the constitution? How then would the States be in rebellion by not obeying an unlawful order?

1.We determine that all their authority comes from God from scripture.

2.The constitution is trampled on daily by others as well. Who in the church makes this decision on who is breaking the law and then judges them?

3.The states can do what they want, nothing gets by God.

We don't wrestle against flesh and blood.

God rules in the kingdom of men.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

1.We determine that all their authority comes from God from scripture.

2.The constitution is trampled on daily by others as well. Who in the church makes this decision on who is breaking the law and then judges them?

3.The states can do what they want, nothing gets by God.

We don't wrestle against flesh and blood.

God rules in the kingdom of men.

But on what do you base the idea that Obama is the ruler of the country? That's what I'm driving at. When the Bible was written there were pretty much just kingdoms. This is a Constitutional republic with the people of the States being the only sovereigns. WE are the rulers ordained by God.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Originalist

But on what do you base the idea that Obama is the ruler of the country? That's what I'm driving at. When the Bible was written there were pretty much just kingdoms. This is a Constitutional republic with the people of the States being the only sovereigns. WE are the rulers ordained by God.

You're not of this kingdom. We are separate. He has authority doesn't he?

[Rudy]

Romans 13
Submit to Government
Obey Authorities; Love Your Neighbor; Put on Christ
1.Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

[Aquila]

As a child of the Light, I don't begrudge men and women their liberties. However, what troubles me is the effort to use government to force churches and houses of worship to perform ceremonies that are contrary to their religious character and values. Also the effort to list any preaching or admonishment against "sin" (namely homosexuality) as hate-speech.

Men and women should be free to live their lives freely in accordance to their conscience as long as their actions do not deprive another of life, liberty, and/or property.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

As a child of the Light, I don't begrudge men and women their liberties. However, what troubles me is the effort to use government to force churches and houses of worship to perform ceremonies that are contrary to their religious character and values. Also the effort to list any preaching or admonishment against "sin" (namely homosexuality) as hate-speech.

Men and women should be free to live their lives freely in accordance to their conscience as long as their actions do not deprive another of life, liberty, and/or property.

Amen.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

You're not of this kingdom. We are separate. He has authority doesn't he?

So as far as Paul's words in Romans 13 are concerned, who then does a Christian living in the USA submit to? Who would the "authority" be here, laws or men?

[shazeep]

or at least consider that we must submit to a higher authority, the Holy Spirit.