Circumcision of the heart

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Luke

Can a person be born again and still have a be carnal and fleshly? If so then how does heart circumcision take place at conversion?

Yes. Just because one is born again doesn't mean they're exempt from temptation. Besides, until we're changed at the last trump, we are still in these fleshly bodies with all of it's weaknesses. But, we are not to use that as an excuse to sin... you can still remove yourself from the covenant relationship by not walking holy and upright.

In all honesty, aren't we talking about a metaphor Paul (and Luke in Acts?) used this as an example to show the Jews that the outward circumcision they were so hung up on didn't matter because of the new covenant/testament. The importance needs to be placed on the inward man and His Spirit working on our spirits. They may have used the term "heart circumcision" to emphasize a changing of our spirit, or a cutting off of the old man's tendancies. This was to show that a ceremonial cutting of the physical flesh doesn't make ones heart/spirit right. But, if God's holy Spirit changes us from the inside out, that's a real change.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Yes. Just because one is born again doesn't mean they're exempt from temptation. Besides, until we're changed at the last trump, we are still in these fleshly bodies with all of it's weaknesses. But, we are not to use that as an excuse to sin... you can still remove yourself from the covenant relationship by not walking holy and upright.

In all honesty, aren't we talking about a metaphor Paul (and Luke in Acts?) used this as an example to show the Jews that the outward circumcision they were so hung up on didn't matter because of the new covenant/testament. The importance needs to be placed on the inward man and His Spirit working on our spirits. They may have used the term "heart circumcision" to emphasize a changing of our spirit, or a cutting off of the old man's tendancies. This was to show that a ceremonial cutting of the physical flesh doesn't make ones heart/spirit right. But, if God's holy Spirit changes us from the inside out, that's a real change.

I agree that we are always (while on this earth) subject to being tempted but this has nothing to do with our body of meat, bones, blood, muscles, and tissue. What I was referring to was our fallen nature what Paul calls the old man or the law of sin in our members or the body of sin or body of death. That thing that we received from Adam which draws us to sin. This has nothing to do with our physical body. If by our having a physical body we must also have a fallen nature then did Jesus have a fallen nature since He had a physical body?