"in the Spirit"

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

More can be done in the Spirit than "praying in the Spirit" as is being focused upon.

One can be pressed in the Spirit to testify:

Acts 18:5
And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

One can teach in the Spirit:

Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

Choices and decisions can be made in the Spirit:

Acts 19:21
After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.

One can be bound to a specific task in the Spirit:

Acts 20:22
And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:

So much can transpire and be experienced while being in the Spirit. Tongues are not all that transpire in the Spirit. That was the primary point.

We weren't discussing "more can be done". We were discussing Mizpeh's particular questions concerning "praying in the spirit".

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What does it mean to be "praying in the Spirit"?

Is "praying in the Spirit" the exact same thing as praying in tongues?

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day" Revelation 1:10

"praying in the Holy Spirit" Jude 1:20

"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?" 1Corinthians 14: 13-16

[mfblume]

What happened was Aquila did not think of Paul referring to the human spirit whereby we pray without understanding, and assumed, like most people, it is the Spirit of God Paul referred to. And when we clarified that, he backpeddled a little.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What happened was Aquila did not think of Paul referring to the human spirit whereby we pray without understanding, and assumed, like most people, it is the Spirit of God Paul referred to. And when we clarified that, he backpeddled a little.

If I understand you correctly, this is a false dichotomy. The born again believer is one spirit with the Lord. The abiding Holy Spirit moves through and speaks through what many call the "human spirit".

Where did I backpeddle?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If I understand you correctly, this is a false dichotomy. The born again believer is one spirit with the Lord. The abiding Holy Spirit moves through and speaks through what many call the "human spirit".

Where did I backpeddle?

The human spirit unites to the Spirit of God to become one. Like the flesh unites in marriage between a man and a woman. But Paul still said HIS SPIRIT. Just like a man and wife each STILL have distinct flesh, so it is with our spirits and God's., which of course was with God's Spirit.

Just accept it. Paul prayed with HIS spirit. His understanding was not a faculty of his spirit. The SOUL is what understands.



The human spirit is the faculty about us that discerns and communes with God. The soul does not. Spirit and soul are not synonymous. We can be grieved in human spirit. A human spirit that is wounded is worse than a broken leg. lol

There are all sorts of passages that speak of the human spirit.

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 16:18 For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.

2Co 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

BOTH God's Spirit and our own are involved in anything SPIRITual. The SPIRITual part of us is obviously our spirits.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The human spirit unites to the Spirit of God to become one. Like the flesh unites in marriage between a man and a woman. But Paul still said HIS SPIRIT. Just like a man and wife each STILL have distinct flesh, so it is with our spirits and God's., which of course was with God's Spirit.

Just accept it. Paul prayed with HIS spirit. His understanding was not a faculty of his spirit. The SOUL is what understands.



The human spirit is the faculty about us that discerns and communes with God. The soul does not. Spirit and soul are not synonymous. We can be grieved in human spirit. A human spirit that is wounded is worse than a broken leg. lol

There are all sorts of passages that speak of the human spirit.

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 16:18 For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.

2Co 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

BOTH God's Spirit and our own are involved in anything SPIRITual. The SPIRITual part of us is obviously our spirits.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The human spirit unites to the Spirit of God to become one. Like the flesh unites in marriage between a man and a woman. But Paul still said HIS SPIRIT. Just like a man and wife each STILL have distinct flesh, so it is with our spirits and God's., which of course was with God's Spirit.

Just accept it. Paul prayed with HIS spirit. His understanding was not a faculty of his spirit. The SOUL is what understands.



The human spirit is the faculty about us that discerns and communes with God. The soul does not. Spirit and soul are not synonymous. We can be grieved in human spirit. A human spirit that is wounded is worse than a broken leg. lol

There are all sorts of passages that speak of the human spirit.

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 16:18 For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.

2Co 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

BOTH God's Spirit and our own are involved in anything SPIRITual. The SPIRITual part of us is obviously our spirits.

So, you believe that just because Paul wrote, "my spirit", the prayer isn't "in the Spirit" and that the Holy Spirit cannot possibly be involved???

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, you believe that just because Paul wrote, "my spirit", the prayer isn't "in the Spirit" and that the Holy Spirit cannot possibly be involved???

Where did he say that?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

We weren't discussing "more can be done". We were discussing Mizpeh's particular questions concerning "praying in the spirit".

And praying in the Spirit doesn't require "tongues" per Mizpeh's question.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And praying in the Spirit doesn't require "tongues" per Mizpeh's question.

It doesn't exclude it, which Mizpeh also didn't disagree on that point.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It doesn't exclude it, which Mizpeh also didn't disagree on that point.

Amen!

The human spirit in union with God's Spirit upon new birth is what was formerly dead before salvation, like an empty holiest of holies in the temple. Our human spirits come alive and into union with God's Spirit. And through the human spirit God can do many things with His Spirit. Including prayer. And that does not have to include tongues. BUT, when PAUL spoke of prayer in the Spirit he was specifically talking about HIS HUMAN SPIRIT in that instance because he contrasted it from HIS understanding. With our understanding (soul) we pray in native language. We UNDERSTAND what we are praying. But when OUR spirits pray it is in tongues and we cannot understand what we are saying, ourselves! Our understanding is unfruitful.

That's why Paul said earlier that no man understands, not even the speaker, when he speaks in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

The translators of the KJV recognized this distinction between God's spirit and the human spirit. so they capitalized the term when in reference to God, but not in reference to human. I do not derive my beliefs from their uses of capitalization of words, but in this case they were right!

It is a case of understanding versus not understanding. And since tongues was the subject of 1 Cor 14, praying in tongues is not praying with understanding.

Too many seem to think that prayer in the spirit is contrasted from prayer when God is not involved, when that is not the point at all. It's like saying someone is in the flesh when some people hear a person not in the spirit. They only know the contrast between ONE SPIRIT, God's, whenever the word SPIRIT is mentioned, and it is ALWAYS contrasting fleshly things from it when it is mentioned. And that is not the case at all.

Esaias thought prayer in the human spirit meant God's Spirit is not involved, and that is not the case at all. Aquila thought prayer in the spirit meant the same thing, but in the context Paul wrote of it both are wrong.

Just because I pray in the understanding does not mean I pray without the presence of God leading me. That's what you folks seem to think Paul was contrasting, and it wasn't.

If we want to talk about leading of God's Spirit, then yes prayer does not have to involve tongues. But Paul was not speaking of that at all in 1 Cor 14. AND THAT IS ALL WE ARE TRYING TO SAY.