Apostolic Study Bible

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That fact remains that everything you or I state even on this forum is and will be critiqued as you did with the edition of the bible you referred to. And we've both said things here that we've critiqued as error, and refused to change our positions, anyway. So, why bother with such a strong stand like that? We're all guilty of what you speak against.

Exactly. Which is why we cannot be unkind to others who may understand things differently than we do now. I believe we are all on a journey, and that our focus should be on JESUS who is truth, and our hearts should be grounded in faith, and in the tenets of Heb. 6:1.

There are many other things that are "up in the air", and perhaps never to be settled for certain until the hereafter. While I enjoy many of these discussions, to a point, I have to leave things alone, because there are some things that I may see one way very clearly, and someone another way, but does that mean one is wrong, and the other right, or could it mean that we are both wrong, or it could mean that we are both right? Again, the answer to that "rhetorical" question will never be known for sure in this life.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Exactly. Which is why we cannot be unkind to others who may understand things differently than we do now. I believe we are all on a journey, and that our focus should be on JESUS who is truth, and our hearts should be grounded in faith, and in the tenets of Heb. 6:1.

There are many other things that are "up in the air", and perhaps never to be settled for certain until the hereafter. While I enjoy many of these discussions, to a point, I have to leave things alone, because there are some things that I may see one way very clearly, and someone another way, but does that mean one is wrong, and the other right, or could it mean that we are both wrong, or it could mean that we are both right? Again, the answer to that "rhetorical" question will never be known for sure in this life.

I love this post, thanks for sharing Kept!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I love this post, thanks for sharing Kept!

Glad we agree

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I love this post, thanks for sharing Kept!

What I did not understand is: if someone doesn't like the Scofield (I found that I disagreed with
too many of the footnotes), or the Thompson, etc., what will a man use! I guess one would have
to rely solely upon the Holy Spirit...but who will establish the "truth" one has received? I mean,
most of us in the church use a Bible that would be discredited by a loner; thus making us a discredit!

"If a man will be in the ministry, his doctrine must correspond to that of the apostles and prophets within the scriptures."

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Exactly. Which is why we cannot be unkind to others who may understand things differently than we do now. I believe we are all on a journey, and that our focus should be on JESUS who is truth, and our hearts should be grounded in faith, and in the tenets of Heb. 6:1.

There are many other things that are "up in the air", and perhaps never to be settled for certain until the hereafter. While I enjoy many of these discussions, to a point, I have to leave things alone, because there are some things that I may see one way very clearly, and someone another way, but does that mean one is wrong, and the other right, or could it mean that we are both wrong, or it could mean that we are both right? Again, the answer to that "rhetorical" question will never be known for sure in this life.

Kept, I know you meant to say Hebrews 6:1 AND 2, for 6:1 is only a part of the teachings of Christ Jesus. And, I agree that our focus MUST be upon Jesus, but there's more to our "walk with God" than "believing" in Him and having our hearts, that is, our minds (Matthew 12:35) grounded in faith.

An important, yea, essential part of "faith" is "works," without which we are not "justified" (James 2:24). And .... "works" MUST include doing that which His inspired word commands, one of which is to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). "Contend" means we must always be ready to argue in debate to make one's position about a matter to be known, while "earnestly" implies doing something with vigor, or refusing to yield in one's determination to succeed.

I state these things that I may point out to you the error in your expressed position regarding this matter. You state that

the answer to that "rhetorical" question will never be known for sure in this life.

Are you unable to recognize the negativeness of your very own words? You leave absolutely NO room for discovery of that which, at first glance, admittedly, might appear to be "rhetorical." However, when I first read our Lord's question, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth" (Luke 18:8), I paused to ponder - What is the answer? Surely our Lord does not engage in rhetoric!

There MUST be an answer, and according to the words of Proverbs 25:2 the responsibility rests with ME to find it! I did just that, and I have published what He revealed to me because I knew that by reliance upon my flawed carnal reasoning I would never locate the answer.

You see, if we DON'T acknowledge our inability to accomplish some things, and display our "faith" in Him to reveal the answers to us, then we, in essence, are saying that our Lord did not really mean it when He advised us to "ASK, and it shall be given you; SEEK, and ye shall find; KNOCK, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7). The emphasis is NOT upon what He will do, rather it must begin with what we are to do.

When we ASK, we receive! When we SEEK, we find! When we KNOCK, it opens! If we fail to exercise "faith" in Him to help us to do these things, believing that we will succeed, then it will be as you've concluded ... "the answer will NEVER be known in this life," although it was there in His written word all the while, but we didn't think ourselves worthy of knowing it!

Hey, I am a child of the King of kings and Lord of lords, and would He keep any good thing from me? Of course not!

Lastly, the words of Revelation 10:7 advise us that as the seventh angel "shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished." At its essence this is advising us that at that moment ALL of the mysterious sayings concerning the "works" of God we find written in the sacred Writ will become known to all. But wait! That's not all that the "mighty angel" said to John! Note there is this small addendum to his statement about these "mysteries," for he also said, "as he HATH DECLARED to his servants the prophets." What does that statement imply?

Well, simply stated, it is advising us that ALL of the intimate details of EVERY "mystery" pertaining to God and His "modus operandi" or manner of doing things relating to mankind, was relayed to His servants the prophets, whom He commanded to record them in a book we know as the Bible, so that we can read and prayerfully study its contents, and in so doing, display our faith in God to reveal such knowledge to us.

Believe that, and invest whatever time and energies might be required to attain that knowledge, and one is assured of success. Choose otherwise, and remain among those who find the content of many passages of the Bible "hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (II Peter 3:16).

Thus we discover, it is truly our decision! Think and "look" at things negatively, as you appear to have done regarding our Lord's question, and remain ignorant, although the answer is right there in His written Word for your discovery, OR think positively, exercising your faith in Him and His promise to give you that answer, and you shall find it. Yes, it's up to you!

Tendered with the prayerful hope that you will give due consideration to the value of my counsel. I pray you'll be blessed.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Kept, I know you meant to say Hebrews 6:1 AND 2, for 6:1 is only a part of the teachings of Christ Jesus. And, I agree that our focus MUST be upon Jesus, but there's more to our "walk with God" than "believing" in Him and having our hearts, that is, our minds (Matthew 12:35) grounded in faith.

An important, yea, essential part of "faith" is "works," without which we are not "justified" (James 2:24). And .... "works" MUST include doing that which His inspired word commands, one of which is to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). "Contend" means we must always be ready to argue in debate to make one's position about a matter to be known, while "earnestly" implies doing something with vigor, or refusing to yield in one's determination to succeed.

I state these things that I may point out to you the error in your expressed position regarding this matter. You state that



Are you unable to recognize the negativeness of your very own words? You leave absolutely NO room for discovery of that which, at first glance, admittedly, might appear to be "rhetorical." However, when I first read our Lord's question, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth" (Luke 18:8), I paused to ponder - What is the answer? Surely our Lord does not engage in rhetoric!

There MUST be an answer, and according to the words of Proverbs 25:2 the responsibility rests with ME to find it! I did just that, and I have published what He revealed to me because I knew that by reliance upon my flawed carnal reasoning I would never locate the answer.

You see, if we DON'T acknowledge our inability to accomplish some things, and display our "faith" in Him to reveal the answers to us, then we, in essence, are saying that our Lord did not really mean it when He advised us to "ASK, and it shall be given you; SEEK, and ye shall find; KNOCK, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7). The emphasis is NOT upon what He will do, rather it must begin with what we are to do.

When we ASK, we receive! When we SEEK, we find! When we KNOCK, it opens! If we fail to exercise "faith" in Him to help us to do these things, believing that we will succeed, then it will be as you've concluded ... "the answer will NEVER be known in this life," although it was there in His written word all the while, but we didn't think ourselves worthy of knowing it!

Hey, I am a child of the King of kings and Lord of lords, and would He keep any good thing from me? Of course not!

Lastly, the words of Revelation 10:7 advise us that as the seventh angel "shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished." At its essence this is advising us that at that moment ALL of the mysterious sayings concerning the "works" of God we find written in the sacred Writ will become known to all. But wait! That's not all that the "mighty angel" said to John! Note there is this small addendum to his statement about these "mysteries," for he also said, "as he HATH DECLARED to his servants the prophets." What does that statement imply?

Well, simply stated, it is advising us that ALL of the intimate details of EVERY "mystery" pertaining to God and His "modus operandi" or manner of doing things relating to mankind, was relayed to His servants the prophets, whom He commanded to record them in a book we know as the Bible, so that we can read and prayerfully study its contents, and in so doing, display our faith in God to reveal such knowledge to us.

Believe that, and invest whatever time and energies might be required to attain that knowledge, and one is assured of success. Choose otherwise, and remain among those who find the content of many passages of the Bible "hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (II Peter 3:16).

Thus we discover, it is truly our decision! Think and "look" at things negatively, as you appear to have done regarding our Lord's question, and remain ignorant, although the answer is right there in His written Word for your discovery, OR think positively, exercising your faith in Him and His promise to give you that answer, and you shall find it. Yes, it's up to you!

Tendered with the prayerful hope that you will give due consideration to the value of my counsel. I pray you'll be blessed.

Bro. Lafon, I truly enjoy your sweet spirit and attitude with which you express your thoughts, and I thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I do believe that the doctrines of Jesus Christ in Heb. 6:1-2 (it was a general reference why I did not add the 2nd verse) are the ones that we do need to contend for. However, our faith in Jesus Christ is ultimately the one thing that will lead us in the right path. It may be that we all believe something now that perhaps is not exactly right. After all, we look through a glass darkly, as Paul wrote. We may "think" we understand completely, but yet we are still looking through the glass darkly. We are seeing shadows. We cannot see into the next life. We cannot look at the whole scope of events that have taken place in this world and understand everything perfectly. Therefore, there may always be something amiss in our understanding of God.

Yet... we must continue in the doctrine of Christ as we have been given by the apostles, and continue in faith. And if my brother understands something differently than me, I will not hate him or talk bad about him, but pray that both of us come to a better knowledge and understanding of Christ.

My point remains that we should not speak unkindly about those who we think may not have as "perfect" an understanding as I, because it could be that we both have something more to learn in the discussion. And Lafon, I am not saying that you have done this, because you are very kind in your manner of speaking, yet it appears that you do believe that you possess the only right interpretation of certain passages, according to how you dissected the bible the UPC put out. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I find it interesting to hear you out. Blessings to you my friend, and I hope that you are feeling well