Reason for Church Services

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Ma'am,
Just like in every company there is a chain of command. The church of God is no different.

My children do not have the wisdom or the experience to make good life choices even though my teenagers will tell you different. So it is in the church there are different levels of wisdom and experience. I can only suppose that there are no rules in your house in regard to your children and no limits?

I believe that there are micro managers in the churches of God and I am not advocating that. But I also believe that Good sincere men are capable of making mistakes and maybe even bad judgment. That does not excuse the fact that they are just trying to convey a safety attitude and culture that most people don't naturally have, especially when it comes to a group of any size. We all come from varied cultures and ethnicities.

I’m sure that even the house churches have rules for things they won’t accept, Depending on their level of tolerance. If a guy came in with mud on his boots, who wouldn’t say something at the door?

Micro managing is not ever right, but your definition could be skewed because you are a woman. And women naturally are the weaker vessel and have had problems with authority since the garden. Try to compose yourself when typing it can be misunderstood.


Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

Your sarcasm is not necessary in this discussion. Dismissing me because I am a woman? This shows right there what kind of heart you have that we are dealing with here.

But to address what you said - the headship as taught by Paul is God-Christ-man-woman. It is written nowhere that a woman is to be subject to anyone other than her husband, and Christ. Prove it with scripture if you think otherwise!

So, the way it is clearly understood by Paul's teaching is that if anyone in the 5-fold ministry or leadership of the church had an issue with a woman or child of another man's family, he would take that issue to the man, the head of the home, and allow the man to deal with it in the way he saw best fit. It is not his place to rule over another man's wife or hold authority over her in any way.

There is no need to micromanage the kingdom of the Lord. The ministry and leadership are meant to encourage, strengthen and lead the body of Christ, not rule over them.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Your sarcasm is not necessary in this discussion. Dismissing me because I am a woman? This shows right there what kind of heart you have that we are dealing with here.

But to address what you said - the headship as taught by Paul is God-Christ-man-woman. It is written nowhere that a woman is to be subject to anyone other than her husband, and Christ. Prove it with scripture if you think otherwise!

So, the way it is clearly understood by Paul's teaching is that if anyone in the 5-fold ministry or leadership of the church had an issue with a woman or child of another man's family, he would take that issue to the man, the head of the home, and allow the man to deal with it in the way he saw best fit. It is not his place to rule over another man's wife or hold authority over her in any way.

There is no need to micromanage the kingdom of the Lord. The ministry and leadership are meant to encourage, strengthen and lead the body of Christ, not rule over them. (I agree)

Below is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say.

Acts 5:1-11 (KJV)

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (notice he brought this money to Peter not God) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. (notice she spoke to Peter not to the Holy Ghost.)9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

It is very clear, the God anointed man of God has authority when he speaks for God, whether speaking to a married Man or Woman. A priest never had this authority but a prophet did or in this case the Apostle Peter. Clearly a perfect example of the authority of the 5- fold ministry in the church or out. Notice it was not, and is not, a biblical command for us to sell all we have and give it to the ministry, but the standard had been set and God Backed his man.

No disrespect intended,
J.A. Perez

[shag]

Nothin like being killed by your pastor...

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Below is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say.

Acts 5:1-11 (KJV)

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (notice he brought this money to Peter not God) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. (notice she spoke to Peter not to the Holy Ghost.)9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

It is very clear, the God anointed man of God has authority when he speaks for God, whether speaking to a married Man or Woman. A priest never had this authority but a prophet did or in this case the Apostle Peter. Clearly a perfect example of the authority of the 5- fold ministry in the church or out. Notice it was not, and is not, a biblical command for us to sell all we have and give it to the ministry, but the standard had been set and God Backed his man.

No disrespect intended,
J.A. Perez

Several points to mention...

1. Notice it was not, and is not, a biblical command for us to sell all we have and give it to the ministry, but the standard had been set and God Backed his man. This was interpreted by you as "giving to the ministry". Really? So the disciples took all the funds that came in and went on vacation with it? Seriously. The funds that came in were being used to distribute to the needs of the congregation - not just the ministry, although I am sure the ministry was taken care of. The part you missed - and it is a big part - is that the funds went to the needs of the believers and church, and were distributed as a necessity to the body of believers, which would include the ministry.

2. Peter dealt with this situation severely because it was to set a precedent among the churches that committing the sin of lying to achieve status in the church would never be accepted by God. This was what brought fear into the hearts of those observing. God will never accept our sacrifices for him if they are done under any illusion to benefit our flesh nature and pride. This spirit was dealt with so severely by the Lord in the very beginning to teach the church just how seriously God hates giving under the illusion of sacrifice, yet tinged with rebellion and deceit. A huge word of caution for all of us. Just because we sacrifice, and give unto the Lord, if it is to receive status, or to attain a place of leadership, authority, or position within the body - it is not accepted by God if it is tainted with deception in any way.

3. The word of authority that Peter spoke was directly from the Lord. Peter didn't "kill" Ananias and Sapphira, the Lord did. It was the authority of the Lord that spoke and revealed their hidden deceitful deeds.

[shazeep]

yes, methinks the meaning of 'church services' has been altered in the intervening years...

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The funds that came in were being used to distribute to the needs of the congregation - not just the ministry