Original Sin - Page 15

thephnxman · #**141** 01-22-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Brother, it simply says our bodies will be fashioned like His body. And look at the body that came out of the grave to see what that means. It appeared out of nowhere in the locked room where the disciples gathered after the resurrection. It ascended up into heaven. It was very physical since Jesus distinctly said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as He did after the resurrection.
Physical does not mean natural, brother. I did an intensive word study on natural and spiritual. They are used in the same book to describe SPIRITUAL MEAT AND DRINK. Moses gave them manna and water from a rock. Spiritual meat and drink. Were they not physical? That is chapter 10.

1Co 10:3-4 KJV And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Chapter 2 shows both words NATURAL and SPIRITUAL. They are not describing composite material. There is the natural MAN and the spiritual MAN.

1Co 2:14-15 KJV But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Does that mean the person is non-physical if he is spiritual and the natural man is physical? Of course not.
It means what INSPIRES.
The word natural refers to the common law of nature. Physics. Natural things cannot be immortal. Nature disallows that. Spiritual simply means SUPERnatural. Motivated by the SPIRIT instead of nature.
Jesus' body was supernatural. It was therefore spiritual. Why? Because it was not physical? Far from it. It was very physical but by no means natural. He proved that.
So there is an assumption you made without realizing it. NATURAL DOES NOT MEAN PHYSICAL.

So there we have it: "the old semantics in the post trick" (not that you use trickery, it's just
a term I use. Maybe I should just have shouted, EUREKA!) You keep yo' cahds very close
to the vest, pa'dnuh.

(1) I have felt no need for an in-depth study on the words "spiritual" and "natural". And I
totally agree that (2) spiritual means supernatural. The only assumption I made was in
thinking we were using the same terminology. From now on, I will use "supernatural body" and
"spiritual", to mean the same thing, and "natural body", or "natural" to mean our existing
bodies: the transforming of the natural to the spiritual. That should handle that. Whew!

That only leaves one little item on the table: I'll mention it later and post for you in braille!

mfblume · #**142** 01-22-2015, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

So there we have it: "the old semantics in the post trick" (not that you use trickery, it's just
a term I use. Maybe I should just have shouted, EUREKA!) You keep yo' cahds very close
to the vest, pa'dnuh.

(1) I have felt no need for an in-depth study on the words "spiritual" and "natural". And I
totally agree that (2) spiritual means supernatural. The only assumption I made was in
thinking we were using the same terminology. From now on, I will use "supernatural body" and
"spiritual", to mean the same thing, and "natural body", or "natural" to mean our existing
bodies: the transforming of the natural to the spiritual. That should handle that. Whew!

That only leaves one little item on the table: I'll mention it later and post for you in braille!

Ok. What just happened? lol. I did not get a clear response from you about whether or not the spiritual body is physical based upon my argument.

thephnxman · #**143** 01-22-2015, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Ok. What just happened? lol. I did not get a clear response from you about whether or not the spiritual body is physical based upon my argument.

I just agreed that the Lord's resurrected body was "supernatural"!

mfblume · #**144** 01-22-2015, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I just agreed that the Lord's resurrected body was "supernatural"!

Ok, so that establishes the fact that being called supernatural is being called spiritual. Therefore, we know that spiritual does not mean non-physical.

thephnxman · #**145** 01-22-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Ok, so that establishes the fact that being called supernatural is being called spiritual. Therefore, we know that spiritual does not mean non-physical.

Beloved, all it establishes is that spiritual means supernatural, nothing more. Using the word "physical" to describe the spiritual can only lead to confusion, as we have already experienced.

mfblume · #**146** 01-22-2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Beloved, all it establishes is that spiritual means supernatural, nothing more. Using the word "physical" to describe the spiritual can only lead to confusion, as we have already experienced.

But my point is that we cannot say the word SPIRITUAL proves the body is not physical. And SPIRITUAL body can be a physical one. But a spiritual body is not necessarily physical. We had to establish that first before we could continue. Others issues prove it is physical.

Now, what About Phil 3:21?

Php 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Can you not see our bodies being made like His, when His was most physical, albeit spiritual?

thephnxman · #**147** 01-23-2015, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

But my point is that we cannot say the word SPIRITUAL proves the body is not physical. And SPIRITUAL body can be a physical one. But a spiritual body is not necessarily physical. We had to establish that first before we could continue. Others issues prove it is physical.
Now, what About Phil 3:21?
Php 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Can you not see our bodies being made like His, when His was most physical, albeit spiritual?

I think I'm beginning to understand you...and THAT'S SCARY!

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that just as the Lord was able to "commute" between the
heavens and this world, so will we be able to "commute" between the "...new heavens
and a new earth...", after THIS heaven and earth are dissolved. Is that what you're saying?

I can't believe that you are intimating that this heavens and this earth WILL NOT be dissolved.

mfblume · #**148** 01-23-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I think I'm beginning to understand you...and THAT'S SCARY!

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that just as the Lord was able to "commute" between the
heavens and this world, so will we be able to "commute" between the "...new heavens
and a new earth...", after THIS heaven and earth are dissolved. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Quote:

I can't believe that you are intimating that this heavens and this earth WILL NOT be dissolved.

I really have no dogmatic belief about what it means for heaven and earth to physically be replaced or nullified. And I really don't care. Whatever the case, whether there is a literal new heaven and earth or not, the picture is the same. We will physically rule on the/a physical earth forever.

We have no suggestion that a new heaven and earth will not be physical. Either way, if this earth remains or if there is a new one, it's still physical and our physical bodies are earth suits made for it.

thephnxman · #**149** 01-23-2015, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes.
I really have no dogmatic belief about what it means for heaven and earth to physically be replaced or nullified. And I really don't care. Whatever the case, whether there is a literal new heaven and earth or not, the picture is the same. We will physically rule on the/a physical earth forever.
We have no suggestion that a new heaven and earth will not be physical. Either way, if this earth remains or if there is a new one, it's still physical and our physical bodies are earth suits made for it.

Beloved, of course you care! And by the way: we already have "earthly suits" to live on
this earth: our "natural bodies" that are bound to the earth...that's why the Lord God "...formed
man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life."

mfblume · #**150** 01-23-2015, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Beloved, of course you care! And by the way: we already have "earthly suits" to live on
this earth: our "natural bodies" that are bound to the earth...that's why the Lord God "...formed
man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life."

No, I do not care. Really.

Physical is for physical. And whatever the case with the earth now, there will be a physical one forever, and our bodies like Christ's will be physical meant for the physical.