Original Sin

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The bible does not call is sin nature. It never uses those terms. It simply says SIN and the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. And using THOSE terms, SIN remains in our flesh until we die. And until then we can only override it.

Now, anyone care to respond to my claim that denial of original sin demands salvation by works?

Sin is transgression of the law of God. Are you saying Christians transgress God's law until death but go to heaven anyway?

Denial of original sin doctrine does not require salvation by works. However acceptance of original sin doctrine requires salvation as a matter of justice rather than grace, ie God OWES it to us to save us.

Original sin doctrine destroys grace. Grace us undeserved favor. Original sin says you are hell bound just for existing, for having a sin nature. What is there to be PARDONED?

Pardon is forgiveness of crimes. It is no crime to do what you cannot BUT do. But is sin is not an involuntary nature but a voluntary choice, then sin is crime (transgression) and DESERVES PUNISHMENT, and the sinner CAN be pardoned upon certain conditions (like the Atonement).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sin is transgression of the law of God. Are you saying Christians transgress God's law until death but go to heaven anyway?

Sin is more than transgression of the law. It is a principle as well. There is the action of SIN and the FORCE Of SIN. As a force in us, sin causes us to commit sins.

When Paul wrote Romans, he used the term SIN as the force or pull within us. That must be where people get the idea of nature from. But to me it's not a nature but a force and a pull or push toward committing SINS.

Sin is like the factory and sins are like the bottles of liquor the factor produces.

Denial of original sin doctrine does not require salvation by works. However acceptance of original sin doctrine requires salvation as a matter of justice rather than grace, ie God OWES it to us to save us.

Not true.

I wish someone would deal with my question. The bible says ADAM made us sinners without our actions. And by the same token Jesus makes us righteous saints. So, if Adam did not make us sinners, then Jesus did not make us righteous and we have to make ourselves righteous. And that is what they call salvation by works.

Original sin doctrine destroys grace. Grace us undeserved favor. Original sin says you are hell bound just for existing, for having a sin nature. What is there to be PARDONED?

Again, I don't use SIN NATURE in my terminology. Original sin says ADAM made us sinners. HIS SIN fell on our heads as though we committed it. And the only alternative to believe that is to believe Adam did not make us sinners, but our own actions did. And if that be the case then Christ did not make us righteous and we have to attain that ourselves.

Pardon is forgiveness of crimes. It is no crime to do what you cannot BUT do.

It's not a matter of pardon from what we cannot but do. It is pardon from the POSITION of BEING sinners. NOT DOING. It is an issue of BEING

But is sin is not an involuntary nature but a voluntary choice, then sin is crime (transgression) and DESERVES PUNISHMENT, and the sinner CAN be pardoned upon certain conditions (like the Atonement).

Sin is more than a transgression, again. SIN is a force.