Why I Am A Futurist

[Michael The Disciple]

Mike,

I realize you cannot make the connection of the coming of Jesus and the resurrection with your belief of partial preterism. If it were just a matter between you and me I would not be concerned about it. We can believe anything we want.

But obviously others are looking for truth so thats why we labor. So its important.

So in keeping with the TOPIC OF THE THREAD and at the same time trying to by the scriptures prove the time frame (future) of the end time I offer this to anyone interested.

The connection of Matthew 24, the great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be Matt. 24:15-21

Jesus said to understand this look back to Daniel the Prophet. Key point Jesus words it would (the time he speaks of) be a time of tribulation such as never was or ever would be again.

What does Daniel say about that same time?

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Dan 12:1-3

So Jesus points to Daniel to understand the time of great tribulation. He is basically quoting from Daniel 12 in context.

That very same context its quite clear that THE RESURRECTION ALSO TAKES PLACE!

Not thousands of years apart!

So at least as far off as full preterism is they understand this so it forces them to say Jesus came and the resurrection happened in 70ad because the whole of their argument is to prove the great trib happened in 70ad!

So there is the connection. The great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead. They happen as a connecting event. After it is over Jesus comes and destroys the man of sins reign and effects the great miracle of the resurrection!

Revelation puts it together nicely.

King James Bible

Satan Bound the Thousand Years

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:1-6

So yes the great tribulation, coming of Christ and the resurrection all have a time frame which in close proximity.

A far cry from the belief that the man of sin (beast) came and ruled and brought the great tribulation into the world 2000 years ago AND YET THERE WAS NO COMING OF CHRIST NEITHER RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

But it is taught by them the trib is back in far distant history but they are still looking to the future for Christs coming and the resurrection.

The connection is there but they have spiritualized all away so theres nothing left to embrace (to them).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Mike,

I realize you cannot make the connection of the coming of Jesus and the resurrection with your belief of partial preterism. If it were just a matter between you and me I would not be concerned about it. We can believe anything we want.

The second coming of Jesus IS ALL about he resurrection and nothing else. It;s the coming in Mat 24 that is different though. You need to prove your point by showing me where the wedding is associated with the resurrection, for that was the basis of your argument against my views today

It's not resurrection and coming, like you now change our conversation and distract the readers to think. It's tribulation and rapture, as well as wedding and rapture.

But obviously others are looking for truth so thats why we labor. So its important.

So in keeping with the TOPIC OF THE THREAD and at the same time trying to by the scriptures prove the time frame (future) of the end time I offer this to anyone interested.

Just looking to see if you will stick to your issue with me and show me where wedding and resurrection are associated with each other like you claimed when you said the wedding occurred around the time of the beast and the resurrection being one and the same issue somehow with the wedding.

You accused me of inserting a gap between the tribulation and the resurrection, but you referred to tribulation and wedding, totally avoiding the glaring point that the wedding is not the resurrection.

Now, you can avoid that now, and try to distract the issue somewhere else, but that's the issue you presented to me in challenge of my beliefs. Let's see if you stick to the context you started.

The connection of Matthew 24, the great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be Matt. 24:15-21

Jesus said to understand this look back to Daniel the Prophet. Key point Jesus words it would (the time he speaks of) be a time of tribulation such as never was or ever would be again.

What does Daniel say about that same time?

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Dan 12:1-3

So Jesus points to Daniel to understand the time of great tribulation. He is basically quoting from Daniel 12 in context.

That very same context its quite clear that THE RESURRECTION ALSO TAKES PLACE!

First of all you avoid the entire issue of the WEDDING connected to the RESURRECTION that YOU initiated in your challenge against my beliefs, thereby leaving that challenge unfinished and abandoned. . And you now depart from the issue of the GAP which you also initiated in our chats. You do not explain how there can be a gap in the seventy weeks. What else will you distract the readers toward if I discuss this NEW issue with you in comparing Daniel 9 and 12 and Matthew 24?

We need to deal with these issues comprehensively and in order. But you start an issue, I address it specifically, and you hop somewhere else without having responded in turn to my response. Well, you've done that many times when we chatted, and would simply run out and never answer some of my posts. Nothing new here, I guess.

The topic of resurrection in Daniel 12 is not found in Matthew 24. Neither is it found in Daniel 7. So, we went from Daniel 7 and Matt 24 and never resolved the issues of resurrection and tribulation. We also never maintained the chat on the possibility of a gap in the seventy weeks.

As far as Dan 12 is concerned, rising from the dead THERE is the issue of salvation, since salvation is distinctly noted in Rom 6:13 to be life from the dead, just as John 5:24-27 spoke of a resurrection both at the time Jesus said it and times to come. I believe both are real. Spiritual resurrection into newness of life NOW by salvation, and physical resurrection in the future at the second coming.

Not thousands of years apart!

That is salvation.

So at least as far off as full preterism is they understand this so it forces them to say Jesus came and the resurrection happened in 70ad because the whole of their argument is to prove the great trib happened in 70ad!

So there is the connection. The great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead. They happen as a connecting event. After it is over Jesus comes and destroys the man of sins reign and effects the great miracle of the resurrection!

Revelation puts it together nicely.

King James Bible

Satan Bound the Thousand Years

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:1-6

So yes the great tribulation, coming of Christ and the resurrection all have a time frame which in close proximity.

Revelation does not show that. Nether does Matt 24 and Dan 12 speaks of salvation as a resurrection.

A far cry from the belief that the man of sin (beast) came and ruled and brought the great tribulation into the world 2000 years ago AND YET THERE WAS NO COMING OF CHRIST NEITHER RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

But it is taught by them the trib is back in far distant history but they are still looking to the future for Christs coming and the resurrection.

The connection is there but they have spiritualized all away so theres nothing left to embrace (to them).

You need to show why there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel 9. That is the ONLY basis for a future seven year tribulation, because no where else in the entire bible is a seven year period prophesied in any form. And if the gap is a figment of a dispies' imagination, as I believe has soundly proved to be the case, the entire post trib doctrine falls to pieces.

Now, what about wedding and resurrection? How did they come to be associated?