Why I Am A Futurist

shag · #1 02-13-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.(the 11, except Judas)

Luke 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:(coming invisible kingdom)

21 Neither shall(future) they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.(beginning at pentecost)

Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.(beginning at pentecost)

So according to what you're saying, you do believe & acknowledge the belief that Matt 16:28' SEEING the son of man is NOT literally seeing him with their physical eyes, because nobody did. Is that correct?

I think the Judas theory is rediculous. Nvr even heard of it. Some means plural. Judas is not plural. So it doesn't work no matter how you dress it up as some a so called generalization statement.

shag · #2 02-13-2015, 09:14 PM

Mtd, I'm just trying to acknowledge the purpose of each word in scripture, and I am not trying to alter the obvious purpose of words in the text to fit a predetermined eschatological view. Who are we? The church. To say the bibles not for us is nuts imo, because there's letters written to folks w particular issues, we are not the faithful church in Philidelphia and the Lukewarm church in laodicea, skitsophrenically at the same time, but we can learn from their strengths or shortcomings to be better as his bride now.
Jesus is God, the God of the old came w clouds and judged in the old, why cannot he not do the same if he is God? Why not? If (matt16:27-28)Seeing the son of man is Pentecost and no one literally saw him, why can not the God of the new do the same as he did in the old, regarding coming in clouds of judgment?
I'm I phoning this so sorry if it's a little running together and I loose you.

You mentioned your hope in seeing Jesus, yet what about all the millions that have died convinced they would also see him before they died, was their hope in vain? After all Jesus said to those who look will see him a second time without sin into salvation, so did they all die in vain wasted hope since they nvr literally physically saw him b4 death?

In trying to figure out why if folks don't know the answer on some of this stuff why they don't just say "I don't know". Lotta stuff I don't know and I don't mind admitting it.

Sean · #3 02-13-2015, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

So according to what you're saying, you do believe & acknowledge the belief that Matt 16:28' SEEING the son of man is NOT literally seeing him with their physical eyes, because nobody did. Is that correct? QUOTE SHAG

Check this out bro...

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.( at Pentecost)

Here is where Jesus fills them with His spirit as the above passage shows us and makes himself visible to them as a "cloven tongue as of fire" during his appearance...

Acts 2
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The cloven fiery tongues were visible to them and were a MANIFESTATION of the Holy Ghost, which is Jesus Himself being manifested to them in this visible way as His kingdom began. They SAW this manifestation of Jesus(Holy Ghost) at Pentecost.

They SAW JESUS(AKA Holy Ghost) at Pentecost

man·i·fest1
ˈmanəˌfest/Submit
adjective
1.
clear or obvious to the eye or mind.
"the system's manifest failings"
synonyms: obvious, clear, plain, apparent, evident, patent, palpable, distinct, definite, blatant, overt, glaring, barefaced, explicit, transparent, conspicuous, undisguised, unmistakable, noticeable, perceptible, visible, recognizable
"his manifest lack of interest"

1manifest
adjective man·i·fest \ˈma-nə-ˌfest\
: able to be seen : clearly shown or visible

: easy to understand or recognize

I think the Judas theory is rediculous. Nvr even heard of it. Some means plural. Judas is not plural. So it doesn't work no matter how you dress it up as some a so called generalization statement. QUOTE SHAG

Some is plural, "some" is the other 11 Apostles bro.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Some shall not taste of death....likewise, one will taste of death.(Judas)

Bowas · #4 02-14-2015, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Some is plural, "some" is the other 11 Apostles bro.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Some shall not taste of death....likewise, one will taste of death.(Judas)

You're dissection of scripture may need adjustments.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

If "some standing here" is referring to one individual. why not just say like Jesus did in Matt 26, "one of you?"

"One" of you is limited to a single individual
"Some" standing here" includes multiple individuals.

Maybe your special dictionary has a better definition of these two words, but this is the best I can come up with.

ONE: being or amounting to a single unit or individual or entire thing, item, or object rather than two or more; a single:

SOME: of a certain unspecified number, amount, degree, etc.:

So "some" will not taste death means more than one person will in fact die before they remaining ones SEE Him coming.

Sean · #5 02-14-2015, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

You're dissection of scripture may need adjustments.

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

If "some standing here" is referring to one individual. why not just say like Jesus did in Matt 26, "one of you?"

"One" of you is limited to a single individual
"Some" standing here" includes multiple individuals.

Bowas, at Matt 26, it was TIME for Judas to betray Jesus...right then! Jesus kept things about WHO will betray Him a secret until the very hour of His betrayal. Then His disciples found out right before....NOT A YEAR OR SO PRIOR (in Matt. 16) TO HARASS JUDAS OR BEAT HIM UP DAILY AND MAYBE KILL HIM TO CHANGE PROPHECY!

Maybe your special dictionary has a better definition of these two words, but this is the best I can come up with.

ONE: being or amounting to a single unit or individual or entire thing, item, or object rather than two or more; a single:

SOME: of a certain unspecified number, amount, degree, etc.:

So "some" will not taste death means more than one person will in fact die before they remaining ones SEE Him coming.

Just imagine what would have happened to Judas or if he would have been ostracized from the group for being called a traitor, giving the disciples very much time to "investigate" him.
They were only allowed to find out "the very hour of betrayal" so prophecy could not be altered by the disciples.(just the thought of someone arresting Jesus caused Peter to slice off a mans' ear)

Bowas · #6 02-14-2015, 07:18 AM

Matt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in his kingdom.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in the clouds with great power and glory.

Was He "SEEN" at His "COMING?"

Bowas · #7 02-14-2015, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Just imagine what would have happened to Judas or if he would have been ostracized from the group for being called a traitor, giving the disciples very much time to "investigate" him.
They were only allowed to find out "the very hour of betrayal" so prophecy could not be altered by the disciples.(just the thought of someone arresting Jesus caused Peter to slice off a mans' ear)

Well then, Jesus mislead them by implying "some" (more than one) when "one" is the truth.

Hmmm. If He mislead on this, I wonder...

Sean · #8 02-14-2015, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

Well then, Jesus mislead them by implying "some" (more than one) when "one" is the truth.

Hmmm. If He mislead on this, I wonder...

Not "misled" them bro., just "spoon fed" them.

mfblume · #9 02-15-2015, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

Well then, Jesus mislead them by implying "some" (more than one) when "one" is the truth.

Hmmm. If He mislead on this, I wonder...

Anything to say what a person refuses to believe is truth no matter how ridiculous it is. Some are so predictable. But they really convince themselves!