Lee Stoneking Addresses UN

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Do you believe Jesus' words when He said his death on the cross is required to draw all men to Him, and that without His death and burial and resurrection, He would not be multiplied but remain alone? Do you believe His words when he said NO ONE comes to God but BY HIM?

Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Act 4:12 KJV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Joh 12:24 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. ....[Explaining how His death was vital to see resurrection save souls and make sons of God.]

Joh 6:53-54 KJV Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:32-33 KJV And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Php 2:9-11 KJV Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 6:3-4 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

And most importantly: this...

Eph 1:20-22 KJV Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, (21) Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: (22) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

1Ti 3:16 KJV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Do you agree with all these words?

I do not interpret that any of these words exempts us from the actions that Jesus practiced on earth to serve God nor do I interpret any of these words in any way but other than salvation is closed to those who do not serve God exactly as Jesus served God.
No magic formula exempts anyone from judgement according to their deeds and Jesus himself said that prostitites and tax collecters would enter Heaven before the self-righteous (something to maybe keep in mind Blume, suggestion only)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I do not interpret that any of these words exempts us from the actions that Jesus practiced on earth to serve God nor do I interpret any of these words in any way but other than salvation is closed to those who do not serve God exactly as Jesus served God.

Agreed. But Jesus said no one can come to God except by Him. That excludes any means apart from the work of the cross, and apart from Jesus, as he noted when he said without his blood and body we don't have eternal life. So, once again, do you believe what Jesus and the apostles said in the verses I quoted?

No magic formula exempts anyone from judgement according to their deeds and Jesus himself said that prostitites and tax collecters would enter Heaven before the self-righteous (something to maybe keep in mind Blume, suggestion only)

agreed. Self righteousness is not present, though, just because we say Muslims are lost. It's not a a matter of us better than you. But us accepting the need for what God said we must accept in his resurrection, which anyone of any nation on earth can accept.

[Praxeas]

Muslims deny Jesus was crucified, for their sins nor that he is the Son of God

Joh_20:31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1Jn_5:10 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.)

1Jn_3:23 And this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Muslims deny Jesus was crucified, for their sins nor that he is the Son of God

How do you know? Because, in your discussions with them, they do not use the same words that you do, in the correct order? See that this might be so vital to you--even though God could care less, and has plainly issued the warning that many will cry "Lord, Lord"--because it defines you now, those words. The meaning behind them is lost in translation, if they are not considered with the rest of Scripture. Acts 2:38 will have you in hell, all by itself; if you make it a Law.

Would you like me to quote where Islam has been provided as a contender for Christians? Never mentions that they are condemned, btw. I would repeat that the vineyard owner had two sons, and that parable is very apt here.

But really all one need do is open their eyes, and examine the fruit. Your leaders have quoted the curse of Isaiah upon us; i would be curious how much condemnation Stoneking heaped upon them, in his visit to the UN.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by shazeep

How do you know? Because, in your discussions with them, they do not use the same words that you do, in the correct order?

I know because they SAID "Jesus was NOT crucified".

I KNOW because they teach God replaced Jesus on the cross with someone else and made it LOOK like Jesus was crucfied, according to Muslims

I know because Muslims say Jesus is NOT the Son of God. You don't really know what you are talking about do you?

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:
...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)